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		<title><![CDATA[Pim.be / 9 yr lease-Tenants not accepting lease termination notice]]></title>
		<link>https://forum.pim.be/viewtopic.php?id=282570</link>
		<description><![CDATA[Les sujets les plus récents dans 9 yr lease-Tenants not accepting lease termination notice.]]></description>
		<lastBuildDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2012 06:05:02 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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			<title><![CDATA[Réponse à&#160;:  9 yr lease-Tenants not accepting lease termination notice]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.pim.be/viewtopic.php?pid=1801397#p1801397</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Conciliation is still making sense.</p><p>Your spouse can also go and represent you at the conciliation, with a &quot;mandat&quot;</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (grmff)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2012 06:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.pim.be/viewtopic.php?pid=1801397#p1801397</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Réponse à&#160;:  9 yr lease-Tenants not accepting lease termination notice]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.pim.be/viewtopic.php?pid=1801395#p1801395</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><blockquote><div><p>They just need to find another apartment where a landlord could take their dog, could let them do barbeque, play PingPong and Table Football, would not ask for pay-slip from both of these 25 years old academicians, one &quot;sans profession&quot;, other &quot;Vendeur et demonstrateur en magasins&quot;]</p></div></blockquote></div><p>As Landlady renting out apartments in WSP (a.o), I would never accept such tenants... too bad credentials (in fact no credentials at all!!).</p><p>Like I said, tenant candidates in WSP are often very wealthy expats working for the EEC or one of the multiple American or European HQ located in Brussels (and / or Zaventem-Evere-Diegem)</p><p>Never students or unemployed candidates. That is impossible: they can&#039;t afford to rent properties in WSP!!</p><p>WSP is, with Uccle, the most posh (and expensive) communes of the Capital of Europe!</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (Panchito-9340)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 21:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.pim.be/viewtopic.php?pid=1801395#p1801395</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Réponse à&#160;:  9 yr lease-Tenants not accepting lease termination notice]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.pim.be/viewtopic.php?pid=1801394#p1801394</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>By the way, I see they both have accepted the registered letter today evening. Will see if they send a counter-notice.</p><p>The commune is WSP. The appointed date for the conciliation is really hard for me. I was out of office one week due to the health issues, result of encounter with them.</p><br /><p>Being in Brussels on a Thursday means I need to approach back to my office, which is out of the country, seeking permission to stay away for the whole week.So practical difficulties!</p><p>Secondly, even if I go to conciliation with a translator friend, I am not sure of the outcome. It is two&#160; tenants against one, I am the odd-man-out, can&#039;t speak local language <img src="https://forum.pim.be/plugins/ezbbc/style/smilies/sad.png" alt="sad" /></p><p>Now I realize that I have given them what they want, they don&#039;t need to pay any indemnity, can go out with one month&#160; notice, whenever they want in the next six months I suppose! </p><p>Only catch is, They just need to find another apartment where a landlord could take their dog, could let them do barbeque, play PingPong and Table Football, would not ask for pay-slip from both of these 25 years old academicians, one &quot;sans profession&quot;, other &quot;Vendeur et demonstrateur en magasins&quot;]</p><br /><p>...and loads of sports equipment and second car , and a bunch of friends, will all arrive one by one slowly but steadily, after renting!!!</p><p>Is this conciliation still making sense?!- Unless they want indemnity from me for not having hot water for one day or they want indemnity as suspected gas smell in October 2011 but didn&#039;t call sibelga.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (WSP)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 20:51:32 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.pim.be/viewtopic.php?pid=1801394#p1801394</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Réponse à&#160;:  9 yr lease-Tenants not accepting lease termination notice]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.pim.be/viewtopic.php?pid=1801393#p1801393</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>The delays are simply huge in WSP.</p><p>I don&#039;t know for WSL...</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (Panchito-9340)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 20:19:03 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.pim.be/viewtopic.php?pid=1801393#p1801393</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Réponse à&#160;:  9 yr lease-Tenants not accepting lease termination notice]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.pim.be/viewtopic.php?pid=1801392#p1801392</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Panchito and Grmff</p><p>I hope to get an easy way out of this mess.</p><p>Thanks again!!!</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (WSP)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 20:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.pim.be/viewtopic.php?pid=1801392#p1801392</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Réponse à&#160;:  9 yr lease-Tenants not accepting lease termination notice]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.pim.be/viewtopic.php?pid=1801391#p1801391</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>I don&#039;t know the delays in either canton.</p><p>You can get an idea easily: Go to the greffe (or phone them), and ask the delay. You will know...</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (grmff)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 20:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.pim.be/viewtopic.php?pid=1801391#p1801391</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Réponse à&#160;:  9 yr lease-Tenants not accepting lease termination notice]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.pim.be/viewtopic.php?pid=1801390#p1801390</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Is it WSP or WSL?</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (Panchito-9340)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 18:40:41 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.pim.be/viewtopic.php?pid=1801390#p1801390</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Réponse à&#160;:  9 yr lease-Tenants not accepting lease termination notice]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.pim.be/viewtopic.php?pid=1801389#p1801389</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><blockquote><div><p>(1) Since the postoffice attempted delivery on 13th April 11:51 hrs, can we confirm that the 6 months notice starts on May 1st?<br />(2) What do I do if they do not accept the lease termination?<br />(3) Is there any other means to notify the tenants of lease termination?<br />(4) Should I need to attempt another means of delivering this lease termination ?<br />(5) What should I do with the bounced/returned latter in case if they do not accept it?<br />## I can deliver in person before and ask for signature from a copy of the letter delivered confirming they have received it, but NOT sure if they would sign it<br />## I can just put a copy in their postbox but there is no proof to confirm if they have received it<br />## I can send a scanned copy of notice as PDF via email with Bpost tracking info , nudging to accept it.</p></div></blockquote></div><p>As said Panchito, if they don&#039;t go and get it, it&#039;s not your problem.<br />But you should put a copy in their std mail.</p><p>If they give a counter notice, they don&#039;t owe you any indemnity. But if you stay less than 18 months, you don&#039;t owe them anything either!</p><p>Note that this clause is the law. It is not a special right you grant them!</p><p>As for the conciliation, you should go.</p><p>As for the delay in WSP, no udea</p><p>Good luck</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (grmff)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 18:26:14 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.pim.be/viewtopic.php?pid=1801389#p1801389</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Réponse à&#160;:  9 yr lease-Tenants not accepting lease termination notice]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.pim.be/viewtopic.php?pid=1801354#p1801354</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>I have forgotten to tell you that your registered letter will remain at their disposal at the post office during 2 weeks, before it is send back to you.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (Panchito-9340)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 11:34:44 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.pim.be/viewtopic.php?pid=1801354#p1801354</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[Réponse à&#160;:  9 yr lease-Tenants not accepting lease termination notice]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.pim.be/viewtopic.php?pid=1801353#p1801353</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>As soon you send a registered letter, the recipient has had the possibility to be informed of its content.</p><p>So, legally speaking, it is not your problem if your tenants collect it or not.</p><p>By the way, usually, I always send a registered letter that indicates that the same letter has also been send by fax and /or email and /or normal post. So there is no doubt at all they have had all the possibilities to be informed.</p><p>If they don&#039;t collect it, you will get it back via a registered letter proving that they didn&#039;t bother to collect it. You must keep all those proofs.</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (Panchito-9340)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 11:33:08 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.pim.be/viewtopic.php?pid=1801353#p1801353</guid>
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			<title><![CDATA[9 yr lease-Tenants not accepting lease termination notice]]></title>
			<link>https://forum.pim.be/viewtopic.php?pid=1801351#p1801351</link>
			<description><![CDATA[<p>Folks,</p><p><strong>Tenants not accepting legal notice</strong><br />I am trying to break a 9 year lease on the first year with a letter as cited here</p><div class="quotebox"><blockquote><div><p>Cher Monsieur le locataire,</p><p>Par la présente, je vous signifie le congé pour occupation personnelle du logement que vous occupez.<br />Le préavis légal de 6 mois commencera le 1/5/2012 et prendra fin le 30/10/2012.<br />Veuillez noter que vous avez le droit de donner un contre-préavis de un mois à tout moment</p></div></blockquote></div><p>I have sent a &quot;envoye recommende avec accuse de reception&quot; to BOTH tenants dated last Thursday 12/4/2012. </p><br /><p>Postoffice attempted delivery on 13/4/2012 but they have not collected it in the last four days..</p><p>B post tracking for both letters is the same since last Friday the 13th, although I know both are in TOWN, in the apartment every day</p><div class="quotebox"><blockquote><div><p>13/04/2012&#160; &#160; 11:51&#160; &#160; Envoi présenté - destinataire absent - avis laissé&#160; &#160;&#160; WOLUWE-ST-LAMBERT MAIL</p><p>Envoi présenté - destinataire absent - avis laissé, item presented - addressee absent - message left</p></div></blockquote></div><p>[color=#E00000]<br />(1) Since the postoffice attempted delivery on 13th April 11:51 hrs, can we confirm that the 6 months notice starts on May 1st?<br />(2) What do I do if they do not accept the lease termination?<br />(3) Is there any other means to notify the tenants of lease termination?<br />(4) Should I need to attempt another means of delivering this lease termination ?<br />(5) What should I do with the bounced/returned latter in case if they do not accept it?<br />## I can deliver in person before and ask for signature from a copy of the letter delivered confirming they have received it, but NOT sure if they would sign it<br />## I can just put a copy in their postbox but there is no proof to confirm if they have received it<br />## I can send a scanned copy of notice as PDF via email with Bpost tracking info , nudging to accept it.<br />[/couleur]</p><p><strong>Tenant indemnity in case if he wants to break lease in this 6 months notice</strong><br />The template I used for signing the 9 year contract was&#160; taken from PIM website and the form is “contrat de bail de résidence principale pour un immeuble sis dans la Région de Bruxelles-Capitale” &amp;lt;https://www.pim.be/telechargement/bail_principal_v2009_bruxelles.pdf&amp;gt; :</p><br /><p>The contract states that&quot;</p><div class="quotebox"><blockquote><div><p>De son côté, le Preneur peut mettre fin au bail à tout moment, moyennant un congé de trois mois, et le paiement d’une indemnité égale à trois mois, deux mois ou un mois de loyer selon que le bail prend fin au cours de la 1ère, de la 2ème ou de la 3ème année.</p></div></blockquote></div><p>Now that I have given them 6 months notice for my family&#039;s own occupation, I need to know my rights what if the tenants want to leave within this 6 months notice period?</p><p>They are in the first year of 9 year lease. Second year of lease starts on September 2012.<br />[color=#E00000]<br />(6) Are they supposed to pay any indemnity in case if they want to leave within these six months notice period from May to Oct 2012?<br />[/couleur]</p><br /><p><strong>A clause in my termination notice</strong><br />A clause in my termination notice says the following</p><div class="quotebox"><blockquote><div><p>!!!!Veuillez noter que vous avez le droit de donner un contre-préavis de un mois à tout moment.!!!????<br />Bien à vous</p></div></blockquote></div><p>[color=#E00000]<br />(7) Could somebody please clarify what it means?<br />(8) Does this clause anyway influence the indemnity tenants have to pay in case if they wish to break lease during this 6 months notice period?<br />(9) With the above clause, can they just give one month notice anytime and walk out without paying any indemnity?<br />[/couleur]</p><p><strong>tenants conciliation request with Judge de Paix</strong><br />Tenant filed the following conciliation request, date of meeting May 3rd. I have an option to postpone it for another day as I believe need to ensure that they acknowledge the lease termination first.</p><p>Water Heater problem reported below has been resolved within 24 hours of tenants gave an appointment to bring a technician.Although no technician confirmed the issue is due to old age, no technician confirmed any &quot;gas smell&quot;, I intend to replace the water heaters at the earliest convenience.</p><div class="quotebox"><blockquote><div><p>Trouble de jouissance pa le fait du proprietaire et autres.</p><p>Odurs de gas, pas d&#039;eau chaude et refus d&#039;intervention, dans la facture du baileur</p><p>Resolution du bail</p></div></blockquote></div><p>I have a feeling I have nothing to gain from the conciliation. <br />I could rather have them for six months to get myself ready for the move.<br />Although, I am worried if they will move forward with a &quot;requette&quot; with Justice de Paix if I don&#039;t go for conciliation or send me a lawyer notice as they have many lawyer friends. </p><p>They don&#039;t have any strong proof either.&#160; </p><p>(a)# I do not have proof of &quot;entretien complete&quot; from within 3 months of tenants occupying in Sep 2011.<br />(b)# I have a proof from water Heater company who fixed heating issue in October 2011<br />(c)# I have fixed water heater problem aagin , at my cost, albeit it is a technical issue, normally the responsibility of tenant, but I undertook to do that due to (a)#</p><br /><p>[color=#E00000]<br />(10) Do I need to go for conciliation with Judge de paix(concilier) dated May 3rd (whether they accept lease terination notice or not)?<br />(11) Is the above query strong enough for them to quit without indemnity, within this 6 months period of notice I have given them?<br />(12) How fast is the requteet procedure in WSP? <br />(13) What if my 6 notice period ends before that?<br />[/couleur]</p>]]></description>
			<author><![CDATA[dummy@example.com (WSP)]]></author>
			<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 11:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>https://forum.pim.be/viewtopic.php?pid=1801351#p1801351</guid>
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