Prorogation du bail - 1 an

nique91 · #1 13-10-2007 00:43:32

Hi,

I write in English because my French is very bad, I hope you can help me because I am in a big trouble.

I signed a 1 year contract from 1st Sept. 2006 to 31st August 2007, and at the beginning of August 2007 I received an email from the landlord asking me if I wanted to extend the contract for a second year at the same price. My answer by email was YES.

I paid as usual the rent for September 2007 and October 2007, but we haven't signed a new contract yet (she sent me a copy by email 2 weeks ago).

Yesterday (12th October) I received a letter from the landlord telling me that I have to leave on 31st October 2007 because my lease contract expired on August 2007 and as written in the contract "Aucune des parties pourra invoquer la tacite reconduction du present bail".

What should I do now? Is the landlord right? The landlord didn't refuse my payment for the rent of September 2007 and October 2007. Does this mean anything? And what about the emails she wrote me? Are those accepted for the extension?
Last question: is the article "Aucune des parties pourra invoquer la tacite reconduction du present bail" legal according to Belgian Law?

Hope you can help. Thanks in advance.
PS You can also answer me in French, no problem.

cochise · #2 13-10-2007 08:49:26

Bon, si on peut répondre en français, ca m'évitera d'utiliser le traducteur de google lol .

Avez vous conservé l'email reconduisant votre contrat?

Quand vous indiquez "(she sent me a copy by email 2 weeks ago).", cela veut dire que vous avez reçu le contrat mais que vous ne l'avez pas signé??

Et last but not least : avez vous contacté le propriétaire par téléphone? Peut-être s'agit-il simplement d'un malentendu?

Quoi qu'il en soit, votre cas est tout à fait défendable devant un tribunal. Ne vous inquiétez pas, la Loi protège bien les locataire en Belgique wink

nique91 · #3 13-10-2007 10:12:13

Yes, I have all the emails on my PC and yes, the new contract is not signed yet on paper because we didn't have the opportunity to meet in the last weeks (I was abroad working).

I add more details. It's not a misunderstanding, beacause the landlord came to my place giving me the letter by hand. He wants me to leave beacuse he is breaking up with his wife and she wants to stay here.
The strange think is that the day before giving me the letter he told me I had 3 months to leave and he was open to do everything to help me and leave before the 3 months, he was even open to pay me to go out. But yesterday he came back with this letter and in a very arrogating way he told me that without a new contract signed I am here but he can kick me off when he wants.

In the past I was doing all this stuff about contract with his wife, but now he is doing everything.

So, what should I do in your opinion and which are my rights? Can this article in the contract "Aucune des parties pourra invoquer la tacite reconduction du present bail" give him the right to kick me off now, even if I had emails proving that they asked me to extend the contract, I paid the rent for 2 months and they didn't refuse? And I also have a 3 months deposit...

Merci merci merci

grmff · #4 13-10-2007 10:29:47

Is it your main residence? Are you student? Have you another official adress?

The type of contract is important. In case of a second résidence contract, the phrase "Aucune des parties pourra invoquer la tacite reconduction du present bail" is valid and usual.

In the case of a contract of "résidence principale", it is not valid. And if the landlord did not send you a letter by Recommandé, your contract is automatically transformed in a contract for 9 years.

Please check your contract... and come back to us.
Your personnal situation will also be important.

nique91 · #5 13-10-2007 10:43:55

I am working here in Belgium, I am Italian but I have the 5 year carte de sejour in Belgium where there is written this address here in Brussels.

In Italy I was living at my parents' place.

I checked my contract, but there is nothing that indicates first/second residence.

If you want I can send you by a copy of the contract to check it.

One thing I didn't mention: this is a furnished apartment, maybe it's important for you to know.

What do you mean with "your personnal situation will also be important"?

Thanks guys!!! I was lost before discovering this forum!!!

PIM · #6 13-10-2007 11:09:27

nique91 a écrit :

I am working here in Belgium, I am Italian but I have the 5 year carte de sejour in Belgium where there is written this address here in Brussels.

Donc apparemment, il s'agirait d'un bail affecté à la résidence principale du locataire et donc la loi concernée serait applicable. Il en résulte que votre propriétaire ne peut pas vous mettre dehors de manière aussi brutale.

Si c'est pour occupation d'un membre de sa famille, le bail de 9 ans est résiliable, mais avec un préavis.

Votre bail (l'existant; il n'est pas nécessaire d'en signer un nouveau) est-il enregistré ?

nique91 a écrit :

If you want I can send you by a copy of the contract to check it.

Cela n'est possible (sauf éventuels messages privés que vous recevriez de l'un ou l'autre membre du forum, mais je déconseille de commencer avec ce genre de choses...) qu'avec le service juridique "Legal Hotline" (parfois joignable le week-end et le soir). Voir détails ici .
Pour préparer votre courrier de réponse à votre propriétaire, je vous conseille de faire appel à la Legal Hotline.

nique91 a écrit :

Thanks guys!!! I was lost before discovering this forum!!!

You are welcome.
Et que vos aventures locatives ne gâchent pas votre plaisir de vivre à Bruxelles....

nique91 · #7 13-10-2007 11:58:25

I think he bail is not registered, I never did anything because it's the first time I heard about registration. Is this point relevant? And who has to register the bail? Landlord or tenant?

Is it relevant that this is a furnished apartment?

By the way, it seems that now we are in a 9 year contract and the phrase "Aucune des parties pourra invoquer la tacite reconduction du present bail" is not valid.
How many months of preavis should the proprietaire give me?

And even if this phrase would be valid, how can he justify the emails I have and the fact that he didn't refuse my rent payment for September and October?

So what do you suggest now? Reply him with the help by Legal Hotline?

grmff · #8 13-10-2007 13:04:49

I believe, as Mr Pim wrote, that you have a 9 year contract.

The owner can stop the 9 year contract as follow (in summary):
1. family occupation. 6 months notice.
2. transformation or important rework of the building. 6 months notice before end of 3 years or 6 years period. Conditions of notice are quite strict and penalties apply in case the conditions are not fulfilled.
3. if it is an appartment, and if the owner want to rehaul the whole building, he can give you a notice of 6 months. Conditions and penalties apply as in 2.

The fact that the contract is not registered makes no difference if the building is not sold. If the building is sold, the notice for family occupation is 3 months (instead of 6) when the contract is not registered.

Legal Hotline will be of help, but I don't know if they speak english.

My opinion is that the owner has no right to give you a notice the way he did. Obviously, he doesn't know the law... or believe you don't know!

Why does he want to end the contract? This info could be interesting...

cath1984 · #9 13-10-2007 13:40:13

Grmff a écrit :

Why does he want to end the contract? This info could be interesting...

Je pense qu'il a dit plus bas que son propriétaire se sépare de sa femme et qu'elle veut venir habiter l'appartement.

nique91 · #10 13-10-2007 14:08:43

He wants to end the contract because he and his wife are separating and she is supposed to come in this apartment...
They are living in my same building, ground and first floor and they have little kids. I think this solution to put the wife in my apartment will save the owner a lot of money.

So, if the article about tacite reconduction is not legal he knows that without a new 1-year contract signed and without any letter recommandee before the end of the contract now we are in a 9-year one and this is a big trouble for him.

The only thing to be sure is about this article and is validity, and even if this is valid, they never told me to leave the apartment, but they asked me by email if it was ok for me to do a second year and they were accepting my payments.

grmff · #11 13-10-2007 17:09:09

The law is quite clear: no notice means contract of 9 years. What ever the contract mentions....

If it is for family occupancy, he has to write it to you, otherwise it is not valid. The letter should be send by recommandé, or a copy countersigned by you when he gives it to you.

And also, he has to occupy 2 full years, otherwise, penalties apply.

PIM · #12 13-10-2007 17:15:34

nique91 a écrit :

They are living in my same building, ground and first floor and they have little kids. I think this solution to put the wife in my apartment will save the owner a lot of money.

Une chose est certaine: il va y avoir de l'ambiance dans cet immeuble...

Pour le surplus, prenez contact avec la Legal Hotline pour les courriers à préparer.

nique91 · #13 13-10-2007 18:16:50

Grmff a écrit :

The law is quite clear: no notice means contract of 9 years. What ever the contract mentions....
If it is for family occupancy, he has to write it to you, otherwise it is not valid. The letter should be send by recommandé, or a copy countersigned by you when he gives it to you.
And also, he has to occupy 2 full years, otherwise, penalties apply.

Ok, so even with that article about no tacite reconduction the contract is now 9 years because he didn't sent me any notice before the end of the contract?

Just one thing: is it relevant that my flat is FURNISHED? Or this doesn't change anything?

Now do you suggest to send him a letter back with your Legal Hotline assistance, right? Any other actions you recommend?

To add other facts, the letter that he gave me yesterday by hand (I am still waiting for the recommandé) doesn't mention anything about family occupancy. He is just like a reminder to leave he flat ASAP because the contract expired on August 31st 2007. And he is informing me that I have not yet cancelled my bank order for the rent of this flat (??? this sounds crazy to me, he never refuse any payment in the last 2 months).

Thanks guys, really! I appreciate your help so much!

grmff · #14 13-10-2007 18:28:53

Ok, so even with that article about no tacite reconduction the contract is now 9 years because he didn't sent me any notice before the end of the contract?

Absolutepositivefarpaitmently ! (I mean yes)

Now do you suggest to send him a letter back with your Legal Hotline assistance, right? Any other actions you recommend?

Depending if you wish to stay or not... and if the Legal Hotline perform in english. Which I don't know 'cause I am just passing by, am not from Pim, and Pim is independant of the Legal Hotline as far as I know... They are not my Legal Hotline...

nique91 · #15 13-10-2007 18:50:39

Grmff a écrit :

Citation :Ok, so even with that article about no tacite reconduction the contract is now 9 years because he didn't sent me any notice before the end of the contract?
Absolutepositivefarpaitmently ! (I mean yes)
Citation :Now do you suggest to send him a letter back with your Legal Hotline assistance, right? Any other actions you recommend?
Depending if you wish to stay or not... and if the Legal Hotline perform in english. Which I don't know 'cause I am just passing by, am not from Pim, and Pim is independant of the Legal Hotline as far as I know... They are not my Legal Hotline...

I mean, I would like to go away now, of course. But the point is that it's impossible for me to find a new place to stay in 15 days, I am often abroad due to my job.
And the way he behaved with me it's really mean and bad...

grmff · #16 13-10-2007 19:42:51

If you want to go away, you can write him that you take it as a notice for self-occupancy, and that the notice will start 1st november and last 6 months.

You can also "remind" him that the belgian law gives you the right to a counter-notice of one month.

Therefore, you will have 6 months to find another place

nique91 · #17 14-10-2007 00:00:43

Grmff a écrit :

If you want to go away, you can write him that you take it as a notice for self-occupancy, and that the notice will start 1st november and last 6 months.
You can also "remind" him that the belgian law gives you the right to a counter-notice of one month.
Therefore, you will have 6 months to find another place

Could you explain me better about this counter-notice of one month?
And what do you mean by self-occupancy? That he needs the apartment for famliar use?

1AM and I am still here... Shame on him, it's his fault if I can't sleep... sad

grmff · #18 14-10-2007 09:35:37

When the owner gives you notice for family occupatio or self occupation, you can give an notice of one month.

It means that, as soon as you receive a notice of 6 months, you take your time to find where you want to live, and then leave within a month.

The exact law says:

(Lorsque le bailleur met fin au contrat conformément aux §§ 2 à 4, le preneur peut lui aussi à tout moment mettre fin au <bail> moyennant un congé d'un mois. Dans ce cas, il n'est pas redevable de l'indemnité prévue à l'alinéa précédent.)

Ain't that good news? You can go and take some sleep...

nique91 · #19 14-10-2007 10:36:53

Grmff a écrit :

When the owner gives you notice for family occupatio or self occupation, you can give an notice of one month.
It means that, as soon as you receive a notice of 6 months, you take your time to find where you want to live, and then leave within a month.
The exact law says:
Citation :(Lorsque le bailleur met fin au contrat conformément aux §§ 2 à 4, le preneur peut lui aussi à tout moment mettre fin au <bail> moyennant un congé d'un mois. Dans ce cas, il n'est pas redevable de l'indemnité prévue à l'alinéa précédent.)
Ain't that good news? You can go and take some sleep...

Do this law apply to flat furnished (meuble) like mine? Is it the same contract for furnished or not furnished?

If in the contract is not written anything about residence principale, how can this be determined?

grmff · #20 14-10-2007 18:16:20

Furnished or not, no difference.

If not specified, it is for main residence. And if specified, there must be a strong and valid reason. (for instance: Election de résidence : Il est expressément convenu entre les parties que le bien loué ne constitue pas la résidence principale du Locataire, s’agissant d’un logement d’étudiant. Durant toute la durée du bail, le Locataire conservera sa résidence principale mentionnée ci-dessus )

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