New tenant issues-What the landlord/syndic can do?

WSP · #1 30-05-2012 17:40:27

Wonderful forum!!
I am back again with further questions

To summarize:
-I have signed a 9 year lease which started Sep 2011 with two youngsters, aged 25, who claimed they were student. I believe one or both are studying law
-Ran into several issues with them
-Gave a termination notice last month that they need to vacate in 6 months, on or before October 31st, as I need apartment for my own use now
-they also have right to leave with one month notice
-Once of the occupants, the girl seems to have disappeared and doesn't seem to be living in the rented apartment anymore
- A stranger seems to live that other occupant in teh apartment now.Not sure if ne of teh occupants have sub-let it.

Now,
# they paid May rent 15 days late
# They have not paid provisional charges for the months of May yet.
I happen to be teh syndic of this three apartment building and we are on negative balance with this syndic account
# They used the same ploy of not paying provisional charges for couple of months once they entered the apartment.

I have already sent a registered letter last Saturday that they should pay provisional charges before month-end and should pay rent and charges in time henceforth. Else, I told them I will open a standard requette with Judge de paix.

I am worried they use all resources water, heating, common electricity etc but they don't want to pay or delay in paying, once I gave termination notice

(1) What should I do if they don't pay rent ?
(2) what should I do if they don't pay provisional charges
(3) How long should I wait before taking action?
(4) There is NO money in syndic account and we can't pay. Will it become illegal if we, say shut down water or stop electricity to common area etc?
(5) I am a first time landlord and new to all these stuff. In case of filing a "standard requette" with juge de paix, what is better?-Do it myself or do it through a lawyer?

WSP · #2 13-04-2012 11:32:34

I don't want to be a syndic. Can give it to somebody if I foind a cheaper, affordable syndic.

Didn't way to pay 250 euro per month for three paartments, just to do the accounting.

Is the rent paid by their parents? How old are they?

I belive each parent pays 4000 euro to each kid I suppose.
When they were negotiating the contract, I saw the girl dad asking both what do they plan for dealing with common charges. I saw the boy calling his mom, get her approval, confirmed he will take care of that. I assume his mother agreed to pay this part.

Both of them have a small fancy car each. Rent and provisional charges were not a problem so far yet.Still worried when they would settle the annual adjustment.

Both are 25 years old.

Panchito-9340 · #3 13-04-2012 07:37:27

Could somebody give some (IPI certified) reference Syndics

SNP proposes lots of training for people wanting to become syndics.

Being Syndic is not a job that you do without having the right skills, level of education, experience etc...

To become Syndic, you will need:
- an excellent technical background (civil engineering)
- an excellent knowledge of the Belgian laws
- financial skills
etc...

Panchito-9340 · #4 13-04-2012 07:23:21

We will charged 825 euro as rent(includes garage) and 85 euro as provisional charges.(not fixed). Somebody can what should be the right rent for the description?

Yes, it is!

But I am extremely surprised that "students" have taken such an apartment in WSP.

For the apartment I am renting out in WSP, I have never had Belgian tenants. Belgian candidates who can spend more than 800€/month, become owners (of course not in WSP).

Also no "students" or unemployed people ...

My tenants have always been wealthy expats working for European HQ of American (or other) companies (like Bank of New York Mellon, Cisco, Toyota etc...)

Never Belgian students! They rent "kots". Unemployed people in WSP can apply to get a social home.

Is the rent paid by their parents? How old are they?

grmff · #5 12-04-2012 22:12:14

If the electricity is on a separate counter (teller? meter?) at tenant cost, they are quite stupid to put an electric heater!!!

An direct electric heater cost the double than a normal heater with gaz or mazout!!! And if they heated the garage with an electric heater, they must be out of their mind!!!

As Panchito says, it's impossible to find a syndic for such a small building. Even at 150€/month, it is a lot of work and responsibilité for small pay...

And the problem would not be the syndic, but the way the two younsters use the appartment and poison your life.

I wish you can get an arrangement at the conciliation. Good luck to you.

Panchito-9340 · #6 12-04-2012 20:32:08

Could somebody give some (IPI certified) reference Syndics in WSP who charge 15 euro per month per apartment?

Generally speaking, it is extremely difficult to find a professional Syndic (IPI certified) who accepts to take a "copropriété" made of less than 20 apartments.

Small "copropriétés" are not enough profitable for professional Syndics...

Panchito-9340 · #7 12-04-2012 20:14:17

As soon there are different owners, you are in a forced "copropriété".
By law, each "copropriété" needs to have an "acte de base", a ROI (Règlement d'ordre intérieur), a Syndic and a registration number at the BCE.
When you have bought, your notaire had the obligation to provide to you the official "acte de base" ; the "reglement d'ordre intérieur", the PV (minutes) of the 3 last Annual General Assemblies.

Did you get those extremely important documents?

WSP · #8 12-04-2012 20:06:27

Panchito,

The whole building doesn't belong to a single owner. 81% to a single owner and with two apartments and 19% to another one whoew is on the attic.

There is an official act de base done way back in 70s, much to the advantage of a single family I suppose.

Looks like they tried to build a "maison de maitre" and three years later decided to split it, perhaps between siblings?

Could somebody give some (IPI certified) reference Syndics in WSP who charge 15 euro per month per apartment?

Panchito-9340 · #9 12-04-2012 19:53:29

By the way I am renting out a 2 bedrooms apartment in the center of WSP (60 sqm + a terrace of 10 sqm).
This is in a 5 stars Residence (copropriété) perfectly managed by a professional Syndic (IPI certified).
The rent is 900€/month + a provision for service charges of 150€/month (electricity, TV, Internet, not included).
Annual adjustement bill based on the real consumptions (cold-warm water + warming).
A 20 sqm garage is available on top for 160€/month.

Panchito-9340 · #10 12-04-2012 19:46:28

And from last year experience, I have total cost for heating to ISTA and they divided it simply based on quotite part returned back with report per apartment/caloriment.

Of course, the whole building belongs to a single owner; so you are not in a "copropriété" having an official "acte de base".
By the way, did you apply to get an official permit to divide your "Maison de Maître" into separate apartments?

Panchito-9340 · #11 12-04-2012 19:43:26

Took ovr a professional syndic, as they were charging 250 euro per month

In WSP, common Syndics (IPI certified) ask 15€/month per apartment.
If you rent out with a PIM contract, you can charge back all your Syndic costs to the tenants.

WSP · #12 12-04-2012 19:08:46

25% (or more) as fixed costs based on the "quotités".
65% (or less) as variable costs based on the private consumptions (ista meters).

Took ovr a professional syndic, as they were charging 250 euro per month
shared between three apartments, just to do the accounting. In a way, monthly syndic cost alone was 83 euro. So, we got of teh rid of teh sysndic.

# And from last year experience, I have total cost for heating to ISTA and they divided it simply based on quotite part returned back with report per apartment/caloriment.

Didn't know the practice on 25%/65%. Will enforce this with ISTA coming year.

With respect to rent, it is a 82 m2 apartment, two bedrooms, one small store room, one balcony, a living plus a cellar of 7 m2 and a garage of 20 m2 witha private access o garage through backgarden from street. In effect, close to 110 m2 altogether.

This 82m2 surface area also includes staircase to firstfloor and II floor.
In efefct living area in the rented apartment could be 72 m2 plus a cellar(7sqm) and a garage.

We will charged 825 euro as rent(includes garage) and 85 euro as provisional charges.(not fixed). Somebody can what should be the right rent for the description?

-private consumption of electricity within the apartment is occupier's cost
-private consumption of gas within apartment is on occupier
-central heating shared on quotite part but will start enforcing 25%/65%
-Water simply based on quotite part for thirty years , as it was single family house, we need to have add another three passage water meters and try to compute consumption from say, 5 water meters. Strangely, WE have one mter from Hydobru and two passage meters split across three apartment that actual consumption per apartment can't be done now.
.
The tenants stayed here since September. Issue started slowly after three months of arrival.

As suggested, will NOT go to police. Will see what they offer in conciliation.
I don't want indemnity. They sooner they leave, the better for me.
And I get back my notice.

I have learnt a lesson.

# No more renting of garage as we share common space & back garden between two garages

# Only one year fixed, See how they behave. have something to hold.

# Put all those conditions which may affect character of the building into the contract smile (Nots sure if this is the right thing)

They said they moved froma studio. They have a dog and load of things which would need a bug house. Not sure how they has all these stuff and a personal gym with at least 4 equipments, (one heavy equipment installed close to PVC sanitary pipe from WC by the tenant sad , big wooden garden table plus chairs, PingPong table, Table FootBall, Two bicycles, Barbeque etc. I still may need to live with this if they want to bring this all out to back-garden for summer.

Well said Grmphh.. And thanks a lot Panchito!!!!

Panchito-9340 · #13 12-04-2012 16:56:07

Is it correct WSP?

Well if this is true, you have been had!!

I do hope for your that they don't maintain their drinks cool by putting the bottles in the lavabo and leaving the taps open all days long...

May we know the amount of the rent and the fixed monthly amount to cover all the service charges?

For how many sqm?

grmff · #14 12-04-2012 16:45:44

As for electricity, if my memory is correct, it is included in a forfait, as they don't have a separate teller.

Is it correct WSP?

Panchito-9340 · #15 12-04-2012 16:33:39

# With respect to heating, They knew how to exploit the system and how to make ISTA to read a 0 consumption on calrorimetrs by not turning on heaters

In standard "copropriétés" the "acte de base" always forseen that all the costs related to the warming installation (electricity, maintenance of the furnace, reparations, issues fixing etc,...) are distributed as following:

25% (or more) as fixed costs based on the "quotités".
65% (or less) as variable costs based on the private consumptions (ista meters).

This is to avoid that occupants that would never turn on their radiators, would not participate to the costs.

Panchito-9340 · #16 12-04-2012 16:28:59

rather depend on electrical heating

Since how long are they in your flat?

After 1 year, they will probably get a huge adjustment bill since in Belgium, electrical heating is much more expensive than any other energy.

I do hope they have private electricity meters at least...

Panchito-9340 · #17 12-04-2012 16:26:01

.#.... or asking electricians is it safe to live in an apartment which has not been certified for compliance etc. On the other end, were carrying a 3KW electric heater everywhere around, from garage while doing gymnastics to bedroom and all. Knowning that this budiling is from 70s, and not rated for a elctrcial heater we still had time to do electcical safety compliance certifciate.

This is not mandatory to rent out (but well to sell...)

grmff · #18 12-04-2012 16:23:19

WSP a écrit :

being a newbie

Do we need to confirm? yikes

I am sure a stupid moron

Don't be so rude to yourself... You're just learning the hard way...

With all our support smile

grmff · #19 12-04-2012 16:18:53

I read your long story. Still, even if you feel there is no chance with "conciliation", you made the right decision to give it a chance. If you manage to get an end of contract on wathever date based on "mutual agreement", you will gain the fact that they leave, and that you can rent again your studio without question about 18 months indemnity.

Globally speaking, you have nothing to loose and everything to with with conciliation.

On the other side, as for the complaint to police, it is up to you. Did they threaten you physically? If not, there is no NEED to file a complaint with the police.

WSP · #20 12-04-2012 16:06:23

Folks,

Your tenants have asked to the Judge a "résolution du bail", which means to be able to break the lease without having to pay any indemnity.

I certainly won't believe this. I have been living with them and I know who they are.

# Both are 25 years old, , living together but one designated as "sans profession" and the other "vendeur et demostrateur en magasins". male and female, registered as "celibataire". Learnt all this only when I got a copy of their certificate de residence this week.

# When they met, being a newbie, I just asked for a copy of id card, which dutifully did so copying thier creditcard size e-id card. They introduced themselves as studying, law etc. Eventually they have referred temselves as academicians. I didn't even as for a payslip. Just got folled seeing parents behind, didn't feel the need to ask as they were students. I am sure a stupid moron wink

# While payment was not a problem so far, they were Sitting in teh apartment 7 days a week, nothing do much, mostly watching TV, not visiting the parents etc.Parents only came to see the apartment the day they have signed the contract

# Their whole attire changed the moment they have signed the contract.
They made me run more than a month to sign the eat de lieux.
# Were always behind the technicians, asking how old the equipment is, intention where(*) they could catch me nicely,

.#.... or asking electricians is it safe to live in an apartment which has not been certified for compliance etc. On the other end, were carrying a 3KW electric heater everywhere around, from garage while doing gymnastics to bedroom and all. Knowning that this budiling is from 70s, and not rated for a elctrcial heater we still had time to do electcical safety compliance certifciate.

# With respect to heating, They knew how to exploit the system and how to make ISTA to read a 0 consumption on calrorimetrs by not turning on heaterr heaters at all, rather depend on electrical heating and candlelights. They knew Mazhout is more expensive in central heating and play to keep thier common charges down.

# They also knew water is divided based on quotite part so were very generous with at least two baths a day, not sure what the others guests/girls were doing, meticulous car washes every month etc...

End of the day, we have lost serenity, tranquility and privacy of our "maison de maitre" apartment. While they were "enjoying the property" , playing Ping Pong in the garage or Table football in the first floor, we were stuck and sandwiched in between in ground floor, feeling strangers ourselves.

# There were weekend parties and yearend parties which went upto 2AM.
Parties always will be done with Table FootBall late night but they have stopped by 10 PM.

# They reported problem this Monday, confirmed this wednesday night when will they allow a technician, but already went for conillation, before doing so, threatening they will ask me indemnity for not having hot water. The summary was, it was a technical/mechanical issue, not aging, to covered by tenant. Once they specified times for access, issue was fixed with in 24 hours.

So, do you want me to believe them they will depart shaking hands if I waive of indemnity? They would have brought stories like, gas smell, heating didn't work for 8 months etc. They might get money from me, make me waive off indemnity , let them chose when they want to leave etc.. If nothing works to their favor, they would have abandonded the "concillage". If I couldn't get to meet them in teh last 4 months to address some issues for harmonious living, how could I expect them to come to an amicable settlement?

I tried meeting them in person. tried this 6 times so far.Last invite was to bring there parents. They deemed it unnecessary.

# By the way, this is not the first time, they are copying many barristers/ lawyers from fromBrussels while sending emails to me, threateing they will engage advocate, go to concilage, ask for indemnity etc.

So folks, I believe I tried limiting the damage to maximum 6 months.
I will try going concillage and see what they are willing to offer.

And I forgot the barbeque which they have started on the first good spells in March in our private garden, as they have access since they have rented the garage, although used garage for storage and setting up gymnastics and bring friends to play.

Question:

Didn't do so yet, as it was not strong. But have the necessity, as I am out country whole leaving, leaving behind kids/family here.

Should I file the long pending police comaplinat today, as I am worried of ther reaction when they receive thier notice tomorrow?

WSP · #21 20-03-2012 21:05:33

(Please forgive me in writing this in English; My french is at very beginner level)

I am a new landlord plus syndic of a "maison de maitre" converted to three apartments.
I own ~80% of the building.

I live in the ground floor. Unknowingly, I leased my first floor apartment for 9 years last July 2011 to two students.
I assumed they were couple or married. These couple?? occupied this apartment since September 2011.

After 3 or months, problems started from them. Although they pay rent in time,
they are treating this "single family/maison de maitre" as their own.

# They do not respect other tenants or adjacent neighbors in the street
# They converted garage into a gymnastic centre with bunch of gym equipments setup.They use electrical heating and music doing gym in the garage. (we need to pass through their garage to goto our garage or backgarden)
# They also have table football and table tennis setup in one of the bedrooms.
# They play indoor football or ping pong even after 10PM with their visitor friends. WE told them children cannot sleep but they do not stop playing indoor games after 10 PM.
# They do conduct party every weekend with friends. Sometimes They make loud noise after 10 PM.(Building from 70s and not sound-proof)
# They moved out barbeque to the common backgarden and left it there for more than a week now.
# I had to call them at atleast twice to remove their car from the common area as my car couldn't enter or leave
# I am worried when they will bring out thier garden tabel/chair and leave it in common area.
# They also invite friends who come to play table tennis pr football with them either in the common backgarden or in their garage or in one of their bedrooms.
# They flush out at least bathtubs every day since they know they have to pay for water based on quotite part.

## (Q1) Do I have the right to evict them (without paying any penalty from my side) if this becomes unbearable?
(I have a valid reason as my 3 children need more space so we can always sent a six months notice requesting them to quit as we need it for our children, )
The template I used for signing the contract was The contract templates were taken from PIM and the form is “contrat de bail de résidence principale pour un immeuble sis dans la Région de Bruxelles-Capitale” <https://www.pim.be/telechargement/bail_principal_v2009_bruxelles.pdf> :
My contract say:
"- à tout moment, en donnant un congé six mois à l’avance, s’il a l’intention d’occuper le bien personnellement et effectivement ou de le faire occuper de la même manière par ses descendants, ses enfants adoptifs, ses ascendants, son conjoint, les descendants,"

##(Q2) As a syndic of this apartment, can I send out following "REGLEMENT D'ORDRE INTERIEUR "?
(a) Tenants & inmates need to respect other tenants/neighbors
(b) Tenants & inmates need to respect the apartment
(c) Keep the front door to street locked after 8 PM
(d) Keep the garage door and access to garage door locked all the time
(e) Except for loading/unloading, cars should not be parked in access-road/approach to our garage or in front of the garage
(f) Do not play any indoor games after 8 PM
(g) Do not make loud noise/music/sound after 8 PM
(h) Do not use high heels shoes in the upper floors
(i) Using fire crackers are not allowed anywhere in the building premises
(j) Setting up barbeque are not allowed anywhere in the building premises
(h) Electrical heater should not be used anywhere in the building premises.
(i) No visitor or guest should be allowed access to garage, back garden or garage access area
(j) No visitors or guests should be allowed to play any indoor or outdoor sports or games in the building premises
(k) Apartment premises, inside or outside, should not be used as a party venue or weekend meeting center???
(l) If inmates cannot help with cutting/pruning garden fence, we would hire external party to cut fence and add it common garden expenses.
(m) No personal items should be left in the common access areas, in front of garage, Access to garage, at the road giving access to garage. This includes barbeque, garden chair, table foot ball, tennis table etc..
· (n) Garage could be used for organized storage of acceptable material or as a garage. Garage should not be used as a gymnastics or sports center

##(Q3) As my 8 year old children play with neighbor's children in their garden or the neighbors children play with our children in our garden, will point (i) and (j) apply to our children too???
##(Q4) We do have a small shoe rack and buggy in the common area but without hindering anybody's passage. Should we remove if point (m) need to gets applied?

New tenant issues-What the landlord/syndic can do?

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