Will 'Bureau de enregistrement' waive off fine?

WSP · #1 13-09-2013 19:39:59

Thank you grmff and D1791. Will approach them and check it out. Worst past was, interest seems more than the capital wink

D1791 · #2 13-09-2013 09:19:07

One of my friends has experienced similar situation, though not totally identical.
The house was located in Brabant Wallon but not in Brussels region.

She had bought the house together with a friend and was supposed to be domiciled in the house for a given period.
She didn't stay with him thus not in the house either.

She left the country to work for an NGO in Afrika.

She received a similar letter as yours from the tax administration.
She went alone (without any lawyer) to the administration and explained her case. As her ex-friend was still living in the house, the case was closed and she had nothing to pay.

Not sure it helps. Just to show sometime you can simply explain your situation and they can understand.

Good luck !

grmff · #3 12-09-2013 22:31:24

And, going back to the very text of the law, here is what I found:

Sauf cas de force majeure, les mêmes droits complémentaires sont dus indivisiblement par les acquéreurs lorsqu'aucun d'eux ne satisfait à l'engagement visé au 2°, c), de l'alinéa 6.

"Cas de force majeure". That's all. No exemple or what so ever.

grmff · #4 12-09-2013 22:20:56

Sorry that you had to disclose personnal information of your very private life...

In fact youcan ask the administration. Or you can ask a lawyer, or the SNP if you are a member.

But, when I read the site Notaire.be, I find following information:

L’acquéreur pourrait échapper à cette sanction s’il parvient à prouver que son engagement n’a pas été respecté pour cause de force majeure.
La force majeure est définie comme un événement imprévisible et inévitable rendant impossible le respect d’un engagement. Par exemple, l’acquéreur perd son emploi après avoir acquis son bien et retrouve par la suite un emploi dans une autre région. Par contre, ce n’est pas un cas de force majeure si l’acquéreur a sollicité sa mutation et est désormais contraint d’habiter dans une commune non bruxelloise. En cas de modification de la vie familiale (telle que mariage, divorce, cessation d’une relation, rupture de fiançailles, etc), l’administration appréciera au cas par cas. Par conséquent, il n’y a pas de règles universelles à ce sujet.

(If I remember well in the fog of my alzheimer, you read french, rigut?)

For me, according to this, it looks that you are in the conditions to avoid the supplement.

Good luck to you with the administration...

WSP · #5 12-09-2013 21:59:27

Good to hear from you! smile

>Your wife is not also owner of the house?
Well, she passed away few months after the purchase, terminal illness.
Her orphaned children, who are living uninterrupted, denounced their inheritance, as they were minor. I ended up the sole owner, only to know later
I won't have a job.

Will take it up with tax authorities , cite all these 'force majeure' and see what
they have to say.

grmff · #6 12-09-2013 17:26:23

They changed the rule, because it is against freedom of movement within Europe. This is also a way to look at it.

But I have no experience, and I am not living in Brussels.

Your wife is not also owner of the house?

WSP · #7 12-09-2013 13:12:58

I bought an apartment in 2005, In Brussels capital region, was living there with my family.As a first time buyer, I have got a waiver on registration costs on a condition that I live there for five years.

In the meantime, I lost my job in 2009, 5 months before expiry of 5 year uninterrupted living. I could not find another job in Belgium but found once outside the country.Although I left end of 2009 with out fulfilling the conditions, my family is still living there, my children are studying in local schools.

Tax office asks me now to pay back this waiver within next month. The Condition I could not comply was, I should have been living Brussels for 5 years from the date of purchase
I intend to prove to the authorities that I had to leave the country due to force majeure' , loss of my job in Brussels and I found another job elsewhere

They state:
"- soit de la date de l'enregistrement du document qui donne lieu à la perception du droit d'enregistrement proportionnel, lorsque ce document est présenté à l'enregistrement dans le délai prévu à cet effet;
- soit de la date limite pour la présentation à l'enregistrement, lorsque ce document est présenté à l'enregistrement après l'expiration du délai prévu à cet effet;

c) s'engager à maintenir leur résidence principale dans la Région de Bruxelles-Capitale pendant une durée ininterrompue d'au moins cinq ans à compter de la date de l'établissement de leur résidence principale dans l'immeuble pour lequel la réduction a été obtenue.
"

But looks like, as per:
http://www.notaire.be/acheter-louer-emprunter/droits-denregistrement/en-...

I meet this condition of going though a force majeure :
"Si le non respect de cette condition est la conséquence de la force majeure. l'amende n'est cependant due.

Sauf cas de force majeure, ces mens droits complimentaires majore l'inters legal au taux fix en matière civile sont dus indivisblement par le'

Question now is, I intend to approach tax authorities to waive this fee for the simple reason I have lost my job, force majeure. but still left behind my family
to find a work .

I have written proof from commune , school , Belgian employers termination notice etc.
# Limited restructure notice from my Belgian employer who gave me 12 months notice by Mid 2009 (orally told me I have tow months to find another job)
# composition de menage
# certificate de domicile et de residence avec history" for children proving they are still livig in taht apartment
# certificate from my kids schools proving they are studying in Brussels capital region.

Questions:
(1) Any body has experience this situation? Is there a chance they will waive of this fine?

(2) Should I approach tax office myself or should I approach through a lawyer?

(3) Should I send a registered letter or go in person?

Will 'Bureau de enregistrement' waive off fine?

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