act de bas

allenja · #1 20-09-2007 22:09:55

Excuse me for writing in English. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I and 4 friends have recently signed a compromis de vente on a maison unifamiliales. We are intending to divide it into 4 apartments - requiring a permis.
Rather simplistically we thought this would be an easy job. However we are now in a bizare situation.
Before we can sign the final act we need to have a completed an act de base. In order to have an act de base we believe that we need to have an accepted permit from the commune (brussels) for a divsion of the house into 4 apartments.
We have to complete the final act within 4 months but Brussels Commune have at least a 6 month delay before they even look at the permit application.
We are really lost on what to do. Surely this problem must have come up before?

grmff · #2 20-09-2007 22:40:15

Hello

Usually, people dividing the house are the original owner, or en investor, buying, dividing and reselling.

The "acte de base" should be written by a "notaire". This is not exactly free, it's even quite expensive. But the notaire is the guy who know, in your case.

I guess you already signed your "compromis", but did not specify that there is a division of property.

What is mentionned in the "compromis" about ownership? Same for all? Separated floor by floor? Different value for each level?

Ask your notaire. All consultations should be free. You pay the notaire when he is "noting"...but not for nothing.

I believe there should be some way out of your situation at low extra cost. When you purchase some real estate which you partially own, there is only 1% of "droit d'enregistrement" (tax) instead of 12.5% (depending on the region, I guess)

Last question: which region? Brussels? Flanders? Wallonia? Because the "droits d'enregistrement" are differents from region to region.

allenja · #3 21-09-2007 08:34:09

Thanks

We have a compromis signed be each one of us stating that the house will be divided. It also states that the act de base should preceed the final act. The act de base - I am told - requires a permit from Brussels 1000 Commune - who currently have a 6 month waiting list and the 45 days to look at it.

So the problem we have is that if the act de base needs the final permit we can not have it for 6-9 months - and our compromis states we should complete within 4 months

Grmff a écrit :

Hello
Usually, people dividing the house are the original owner, or en investor, buying, dividing and reselling.
The "acte de base" should be written by a "notaire". This is not exactly free, it's even quite expensive. But the notaire is the guy who know, in your case.
I guess you already signed your "compromis", but did not specify that there is a division of property.
What is mentionned in the "compromis" about ownership? Same for all? Separated floor by floor? Different value for each level?
Ask your notaire. All consultations should be free. You pay the notaire when he is "noting"...but not for nothing.
I believe there should be some way out of your situation at low extra cost. When you purchase some real estate which you partially own, there is only 1% of "droit d'enregistrement" (tax) instead of 12.5% (depending on the region, I guess)
Last question: which region? Brussels? Flanders? Wallonia? Because the "droits d'enregistrement" are differents from region to region.

grmff · #4 21-09-2007 09:15:47

The seller signed a compromis mentionning that the house will be divided?

This is strange, because if the house can not be divided, there is something wrong in the sale, and it can be cancelled by any of the buyers

Frankly speaking, the case is complex, and depend upon the exact words used in the document.

The compromis has been signed in front of a notaire? Or at least prepared by a notaire? Or by a real estate agent? Or just like that between the buyers and the seller?

If the compromis is in french, do not hésitate to copy-paste extracts. (if it's in Dutch, sorry, I can't help)

If it's in english, I am pretty sure you'll face problems: it won't be written by a notaire nor by a real estate agent... don't wait. ask a lawyer! glasses

allenja · #5 21-09-2007 09:30:54

Thanks very much again.

The compromis is in french and signed in front of notaires.

The seller is selling the entire house (maison Unifamiliales) to us. However, one of the conditions particular is that:

"L'acte authentiqur de vente sera précédé d'un acte de base aux termes duquel le bien sera placé sous le régime de l'a copropriét.é et de l'indivision forcée conformement aux articles 577-2 á 577-14 du code civil. "

We also have a conditions suspensive:

"La présente vente est soumise a la condition suspensive de l'obtention d'un permis á délivrer par le Ville de Bruxelles, de divsier le bien en quatre entités distinctes et ce, dans ler quatre mois de presentes"

The problem is the delay with the commune meaning that we will not get the permis in 4 months so we either have to delay the sale until we do - or find a way of signing the act de base without the permis (we are told by the Commune we will get the permis but not in 4 months)

Grmff a écrit :

The seller signed a compromis mentionning that the house will be divided?
This is strange, because if the house can not be divided, there is something wrong in the sale, and it can be cancelled by any of the buyers
Frankly speaking, the case is complex, and depend upon the exact words used in the document.
The compromis has been signed in front of a notaire? Or at least prepared by a notaire? Or by a real estate agent? Or just like that between the buyers and the seller?
If the compromis is in french, do not hésitate to copy-paste extracts. (if it's in Dutch, sorry, I can't help)
If it's in english, I am pretty sure you'll face problems: it won't be written by a notaire nor by a real estate agent... don't wait. ask a lawyer!

grmff · #6 21-09-2007 09:55:00

The main risk is therefore eliminated: risk of having to pay the droits d'enregistrement within the 4 months of compromis.

In fact, in Belgium, you have to pay these "droits d'enregistrement" within 4 months of the sale. In your case, the sale is complete and definitive after the completion of the "condition suspensive". You have then more time.

The 4 months period mentionned in the compromis seems long enough to me...but I am not from Brussels and never did such an operation.

You should not wait to introduce your permit, and you should not wait to ask the notaire to write the Acte de Base.

curieux · #7 21-09-2007 10:42:27

allenja a écrit :

"L'acte authentiqur de vente sera précédé d'un acte de base aux termes duquel le bien sera placé sous le régime de l'a copropriét.é et de l'indivision forcée conformement aux articles 577-2 á 577-14 du code civil. "
We also have a conditions suspensive:
"La présente vente est soumise a la condition suspensive de l'obtention d'un permis á délivrer par le Ville de Bruxelles, de divsier le bien en quatre entités distinctes et ce, dans ler quatre mois de presentes"
The problem is the delay with the commune meaning that we will not get the permis in 4 months so we either have to delay the sale until we do - or find a way of signing the act de base without the permis (we are told by the Commune we will get the permis but not in 4 months)

Grmff a écrit :

This is strange, because if the house can not be divided, there is something wrong in the sale, and it can be cancelled by any of the buyers

and the seller ?

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