apres donner la preavis

sno321 · #1 10-07-2009 06:51:56

Grmff a écrit :

What did you ask in the request to the judge? and when? Before or after the date she left?

i launched the procedure on 5th of May.
she left on 16th of may.
decision was give on 4th of june.

i asked in the request "
madame a recu la preavis pour partie a 30 juin, 2009. il rester 2 mois pour son depart mais elle precise pas la date de son depart. elle n'a pas l'air d'etre serieuse. je vais bien que

1) elle precise devant la judge qu'elle pars a 30 juin, 2009 sans delai
2) qu'elle continuer payer son loyer jusqu'a son depart
3) qu'elle depose sa cle d'appart pour les raisons de securite
"

she left on 16t of may, with a verbal promise that she will pay the rent of may and june. but she did not pay so i sent her a letter on 22nd of May, 2009 to her new address that she has not paid her rent. Then she sent me a letter explaining the following on 28th of May, 2009

"

c'est avec grande surprise que je prends connaissance du contenu de vos courriers relatifs au paiment du mois de mai 2009.
comme vous le savez, j'ai quitte votre appartment sur votre insistance des le debut du mois de mai 2009.
ce demenagement a eu lieu avec votre accord et meme plus puisque des l'envoi de votre courrier de preavis, vous me sommiez de quitter les lieux au plus vite en allant meme jusqu'a me proposer d'intervenir dans ma recherche de logement.
Le jour de mon depart vous etiez present, vous m'avez meme aide a descendre une partie de mes affaires. Les voisins en sont temoins.
Nous n’avons pas eu une relation locative tres equilibre puisque vous vous permettiez par exemple de vous introduire dans mon appartment en mon absence, de ponter mon computer….
Vous ne respectiez pas non plus vos obligations d’entretien et de reparation des lieux, comme vous le savez l’appartment etait infeste d’humidite et ce jusqu’a mon depart.
J’ai pris soin de prendre des photos avant de partir.
Je vous adresse donc le present courrier pour que vous compreniez que j’ai toujours ete consiliante a votre egard, j’aimerai donc que vous fassiez preuve de bonne foi en ne me pressant plus de payer une quelconque somme d’argent puisque je ne vous dois rien.
J’ai respecte votre demande insistante de me voir quitter les lieux le plus rapidement parceque votre femme devait arriver
Notre relation locative est donc acheve depuis mon depart.
Ce courrier vous est adresse par voie re recommande, et ce, selon les dispositions legales qui me sont imposees
Bien a vous,
Madame Polca
"

Then I got the judgement on 4th of june.

i sent her a copy of judgement and asking that if she pays the remaining rent, then i do not claim any other things like interest and other "frais".

instead of paying the remaining rent, she is now accusing that she paid me garantie cash etc etc. Her lawyer has announced to me a recours by post letter and by email. i am still waiting to hear further about that.

What are your views about this?

Thanks for your kind assistance
/sno

grmff · #21 08-07-2009 22:33:26

Registered or not will not make much difference... but I would check. You can check with the "Enregistrement" There is one in every city or so. They will be able to tell you if there is a registered contract. That's the first thing I would do.

Then, if there will be a recours, you have to see what kind of recours it will be. What did you ask in the request to the judge? and when? Before or after the date she left?

sno321 · #22 08-07-2009 21:28:46

her lawyer has wrote me a letter that she will do the opposition. so it is ocnfirmed that there will be a "recours"

1- when i bough the house, i found many in the house without a bail or atleast they never showed me one. so i had to make a new bail for all those who were there including her. Interesting thing, her lawyer claimed that she had a resigered bail of 5 years. did 5 years residential bail ever existed?
2- if she had one bail, why she signed the new one?
3- why she is claiming only when i ask her to pay her "arriers des loyers"?
4- how can you pay an amout like 900 euros to someone without any reciept and you continue to live for 2 years? [it is a big lie. i have a "recu book" where i register all my cash flow and give also copy to locataire. i can show that to judge]

indeminite

1- can i claim any further indeminite now from judge?
2- can i claim any other thing in "recours"?

bail register?
1- i do not remember if bail was registere or not back in 2007. how can i get this information?
2- does it make any difference if bail was registered or not?

thanks for kind assistance !

best wishes
/sno

grmff · #23 08-07-2009 20:51:18

Did you send a huissier?

You never told us she was already in the house when you baught it.

Now, there is a chance that she will claim the "préavis" was undue... and that she wants a indemnité...

With a judge, she will be discredited because she claims so late... and she signed the contract.

But what really strike me is that she claims she was already there, and claims at the same time she paid a new warranty. It just make no sense... As there is nothing in writing (if I understand correctly, the claims were made on phone..), ask the lawyer to confirm their position in writing... or you will have no other choice than sending the huissier.

And I would ask them on the phone...

Personnally, without a written reply in 2 weeks from this request, I would send the huissier.

sno321 · #24 08-07-2009 11:49:13

so here we go again.
today, i got a letter from a lawyer. saying that she will oppose the decision.
i spoke to her and she told me
1- her client already pay me garantie cash [900 euros] but it was me who never wanted to give her a reciept of the garantie she paid. yikes
2- she already had a bail enregistre the time i bought the house so why i made another bail? (?)

i am just wondering that how can someone blame other like this?
my locataire was paying her rent always by bank. she proposed me several times the payment cash but i never accepted it. even though when i get the rent in cash, i register it on my "recu book" and give a copy to client.

for the registered bail she had on the time i bought the house. she never showed me the bail she ever had. so i had to make a new bail in assumption that she was living there without any bail. 2ndly, nothing changed from the old bail to new like rent remained same and also the conditions. just the bail was written on a new standard bail of "SNCP".

what are your views about all that? can a judge make the decision base on blames like this? someone always paying the rent by bank and suddenly tell you after two years that you kept her garantie without giving her any proof that you were keeping the garantie ?

looking forward to hearing your views !

regards,
/sno

grmff · #25 05-06-2009 22:52:02

They don't send the judgement by post, usually.

When there is a judgement "par défaut", usually, the décision is equal to the demand. The looser has one month to form opposition to the judgement, starting the day of the "signification" by huissier.

So, if you don't want to contact her anymore, you should contact a huissier. He will ask you a provision, and will reimburse you if he gets the money.

Provision will be high, and depends upon the request you make.

sno321 · #26 05-06-2009 19:10:18

Grmff a écrit :

If you want a copyof the decision, you have to get it at the greffe of the tribunal. Allow one week for them to type it down.

Will they not send it by post ? atleast the lady over there told me that it comes by post

Grmff a écrit :

You have to know that your locataire can make opposition to the judgement.

i do not know how does it work. may be you can explain me a bit more about that? How much time does she have to oppose the decision? how does it work actually?

Grmff a écrit :

I guess there is a warranty, blocked at the bank. With the judgment, you go to the bank, and they deliver you the money.

there is no warranty blocked :-) i was very naive in the beginning but now i do not let without warranty !

Grmff a écrit :

With the official copy of the judgement, you can ask any "huissier" to do the necessary. Before that, you can ask your ex-locataire if she complies with the judgement, or if you need to hire the huissier....

i do not want to contact her any more ... so should i contact huissier immediately or wait if she oppose or not?

thanks in advance !
/sno

grmff · #27 05-06-2009 17:40:14

If you want a copyof the decision, you have to get it at the greffe of the tribunal. Allow one week for them to type it down.

You have to know that your locataire can make opposition to the judgement.

I guess there is a warranty, blocked at the bank. With the judgment, you go to the bank, and they deliver you the money.

With the official copy of the judgement, you can ask any "huissier" to do the necessary. Before that, you can ask your ex-locataire if she complies with the judgement, or if you need to hire the huissier...

As you have been really low in your demands, it is her interest to accept the judgement. If she ask for a new judgment, you might be able to ask for more.

If she has low wages, and if you can wait, you might propose her a "volontary payment planning". If the discussion is possible.

Explain her that the judge will give you the same again, that the additionnal costs will be for her, that the huissier costs will be for her also...

sno321 · #28 05-06-2009 14:32:51

Grmff a écrit :

That's what I would do!

as discussed, i renovated my appartment and rented it from 1st of June, 2009.

meanwhile, i had my appointment with Judge de paix on 4th of June. i explained that my locataire left without having any "l'etat de lieu de sortir" and left things in mess in appartment. however, i do not want to claim anything other than (1) rent of may and june, 2009 (2) two open factures of water. Since my locataire didn't come to court.

I got the judgement "par default", also Judge added 7% of interest to be paid by my locataire.

my locataire didn't come to court but she sent me a letter on reply of one of my letters in which i asked her to pay rent of may, 2009 after she left
1- she was surprised to know that she still has to pay the rent of may, 2009
2- she accused that she left the appartment in the begining of month of may because i wanted her to leave
3- she accused me that i used to enter her appartment in her absence etc
4- she also thought that there were some maintainance due and humidity in the appartment that i didn't take care of.
5- she has taken pictures before leaving etc

i understand that someone will start accusing when she knows that she has to pay back 900 euros of rent of 2 months, and 150 euros for water, as well as the interest on late payment etc.

now, what are the next steps?
when can i expect to have the copy of decision?
how can i proceed further with that copy of decision?
Can my locataire appeal on the decision?

many thanks in advance for your kind help !

/s

grmff · #29 13-05-2009 15:55:42

That's what I would do!

sno321 · #30 13-05-2009 15:19:15

thanks Grmf !

yes, she is able to pay me.
she earns more than 1200 euros a month

so once i have taken the pictures, can i then start renovation and renting it again even from 1st of june?

/sno

grmff · #31 13-05-2009 14:50:54

I would send a recommandé directly, to mention the problem.

If you hace the key and access to the appartment, take someone with you, eventually a policeman, change the keys and take many pictures, with the date if possible.

You can claim the rent of may and june.

The point will still be : will she be alble to pay you...

sno321 · #32 13-05-2009 13:38:18

Grmff a écrit :

Question subsidiaire: Pourquoi fait-elle tout pour vous casser les pieds?

elle voulais pas partir et ce pour ca.

my concern is that if i have taken the keys without receiving the rents. can i start my renovation in the appartment and also to proof to judge that she has not paid the rent of may and june 2009? can i re-rent it from 1st of june 2009 since sometimes it takes longer to recuperate the money?

what exactly do i need to do that i can claim my rent amount infront of judge as a proof and also i do not lose time in renting it either

thanks for your help !
/sno

grmff · #33 13-05-2009 13:30:27

Au delà de la propreté, vous n'êtes pas sans ressources.

Il n'y a pas que l'état des lieux pour démontrer l'état à l'entrée ou à la sortie.

Pour l'entrée, il y a aussi le témoignage du locataire précédent, d'un corp de métier, d'un concierge, d'un ami.

Pour la sortie, il y a le témoignage tout court.

Mais l'un dans l'autre, le tout est de savoir si la personne est solvable. Au bout du compte, si vous démontrez que c'est bien elle qui a fait les dégats mais qu'elle n'est pas solvable, cela ne sert à rien.

Et ce n'est pas facile d'avoir de l'emprise sur les personnes qui n'ont rien...

Question subsidiaire: Pourquoi fait-elle tout pour vous casser les pieds?

sno321 · #34 13-05-2009 13:07:31

merci skywalker

skywalker · #35 13-05-2009 12:11:59

Je ne comprends toujours pas comment un proprio peut choisir des locataires sans établir d’état des lieux d’entrée préalable (recommandation à maintes fois prodiguée sur ce forum !). Soit. Si aucun état des lieux n'a été établi à l’entrée, le bien est alors supposé rendu à la sortie dans l'état dans lequel il a été loué. Sauf si le propriétaire peut prouver autrement l’état du bien à l’entrée (exemple : photos, idéalement signées et datées par les parties)

Toutefois, une absence d’état des lieux d’entrée n’exempt pas le locataire de son obligation d’agir en bon père de famille. C’est-à-dire qu’il doit nettoyer les lieux avant la remise des clés (nettoyage à grandes eaux), les abords (trottoir, terrasse,…) doivent également être nettoyés, la végétation doit être entretenue (pelouse tondue, haies taillées,…). Si les lieux vous sont restitués dans un état de propreté déplorable, vous pouvez déduire ce montant (uniquement le montant du nettoyage, pas des dégâts !) de la garantie locative.

Concernant les loyers impayés, introduisez une requête à la Justice de Paix.

Dernier conseil: dès que votre locataire est partie, faites changer les serrures!

sno321 · #36 12-05-2009 21:42:07

on a pas faire l'etat de lieu de sortir
mais aujourd hui elle m'a dit qu'elle va meme enlever les serreure et elle va laisser les portes ouvertes

je ss proprietaire depuis 2 ans et elle etait une ancienne locataire
je n'ai pas faire l'etait de lieu d entre avec elle
elle a prise meme la cuisinier avec et elle m'a dit qu'elle va enlever les almoires de cuisine aussi

je n'ai toujours pas recu son loyer de ce mois non plus

qu est ce que je doit faire dans ce cas ?

PIM · #37 12-05-2009 15:59:39

jai depose un requette devant la judge de paix

.. pour une partie de tennis ?

(OK, je sors)

Plus sérieusement:
si le préavis expire le 30 juin, le loyer est dû jusqu'au 30 juin...

Avez-vous fait un état des lieux de sortie ?
Avez-vous restitué la garantie locative ?

elle va me remetre les cles cette semaine

Ne surtout pas signer de reçu, ni de décharge.

ma locataire a finalement vide son appartment le weekend dernier

Si j'ai bien lu (rapidement) vos messages précédents, vous devriez être content, non ? (puisque vous aviez craint qu'elle ne reste dans les lieux)

Pour ce qui est de votre requête déposée, je laisse la parole aux spécialistes des prétoires (pour voir notamment si la requête doit être adaptée / modifiée suite au départ)

sno321 · #38 12-05-2009 12:17:48

aider moi svp
j en ai besion de votre consiel !
merci
sno

sno321 · #39 12-05-2009 06:48:17

jai depose un requette devant la judge de paix pour fixe une date d'audience pour mois prochaine.

ma locataire a finalement vide son appartment le weekend dernier
elle va me remetre les cles cette semaine.

MAIS son preavis termine le mois prochaine, a 30 juin 2009.
je n'ai toujours pas recu loyer de ce mois aussi.
est ce qu'elle est oblige de payer son loyer de ce mois et jusqu'a 30 juin par la loi ou elle peut sortir meme ce mois ?

qu'est ce que loi a dire dans ce cas ?

merci a l'avance pour me donner votre consiel svp
sno

sno321 · #40 28-04-2009 21:39:26

bonjour

j'ai donne la preavis a ma locataire.
son bail ete commencer a 1ere juillet, 2007.
elle a recu son preavis a 27 mars, 2008 pour quitter la lieu a 30 juin, 2007.

elle a pas l'air d'etre serieuse.
elle m'a dit qu'elle trouver pas un appart dans l'endroit.
mais ce quand je sort dans la quartier, il y a pleins des apparts a loue.

puis elle dit qu'elle a besoin d'encore des 3 mois. bla bla bla

quelles sont les doits de ma locataire dans ce cas?
quelles sont mes droits pour la faire sortir d 'appart?
comment je doit avancer legalement pour qu'elle part de mon appartment a 30 juin?

donne moi votre consiel svp
/sno

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