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    New tenant issues-What the landlord/syndic can do?

    WSP
    Pimonaute assidu
    Lieu : Brussels
    Inscription : 14-09-2011
    Messages : 83

    New tenant issues-What the landlord/syndic can do?

    (Please forgive me in writing this in English; My french is at very beginner level)

    I am a new landlord plus syndic of a "maison de maitre" converted to three apartments.
    I own ~80% of the building.

    I live in the ground floor. Unknowingly, I leased my first floor apartment for 9 years last July 2011 to two students.
    I assumed they were couple or married. These couple?? occupied this apartment since September 2011.

    After 3 or months, problems started from them. Although they pay rent in time,
    they are treating this "single family/maison de maitre" as their own.

    # They do not respect other tenants or adjacent neighbors in the street
    # They converted garage into a gymnastic centre with bunch of gym equipments setup.They use electrical heating and music doing gym in the garage. (we need to pass through their garage to goto our garage or backgarden)
    # They also have table football and table tennis setup in one of the bedrooms.
    # They play indoor football or ping pong even after 10PM with their visitor friends. WE told them children cannot sleep but they do not stop playing indoor games after 10 PM.
    # They do conduct party every weekend with friends. Sometimes They make loud noise after 10 PM.(Building from 70s and not sound-proof)
    # They moved out barbeque to the common backgarden and left it there for more than a week now.
    # I had to call them at atleast twice to remove their car from the common area as my car couldn't enter or leave
    # I am worried when they will bring out thier garden tabel/chair and leave it in common area.
    # They also invite friends who come to play table tennis pr football with them either in the common backgarden or in their garage or in one of their bedrooms.
    # They flush out at least bathtubs every day since they know they have to pay for water based on quotite part.




    ## (Q1) Do I have the right to evict them (without paying any penalty from my side) if this becomes unbearable?
    (I have a valid reason as my 3 children need more space so we can always sent a six months notice requesting them to quit as we need it for our children, )
    The template I used for signing the contract was The contract templates were taken from PIM and the form is “contrat de bail de résidence principale pour un immeuble sis dans la Région de Bruxelles-Capitale” <https://www.pim.be/telechargement/bail_principal_v2009_bruxelles.pdf> :
    My contract say:
    "- à tout moment, en donnant un congé six mois à l’avance, s’il a l’intention d’occuper le bien personnellement et effectivement ou de le faire occuper de la même manière par ses descendants, ses enfants adoptifs, ses ascendants, son conjoint, les descendants,"

    ##(Q2) As a syndic of this apartment, can I send out following "REGLEMENT D'ORDRE INTERIEUR "?
        (a) Tenants & inmates need to respect other tenants/neighbors
        (b) Tenants & inmates need to respect the apartment
        (c) Keep the front door to street locked after 8 PM
        (d) Keep the garage door and access to garage door locked all the time
        (e) Except for loading/unloading, cars should not be parked in access-road/approach to our garage or in front of the garage
        (f) Do not play any indoor games after 8 PM
        (g) Do not make loud noise/music/sound after 8 PM
        (h) Do not use high heels shoes in the upper floors
        (i) Using fire crackers are not allowed anywhere in the building premises
        (j) Setting up barbeque are not allowed anywhere in the building premises
        (h) Electrical heater should not be used anywhere in the building premises.
        (i) No visitor or guest should be allowed access to garage, back garden or garage access area
        (j) No visitors or guests should be allowed to play any indoor or outdoor sports or games in the building premises
        (k) Apartment premises, inside or outside, should not be used as a party venue or weekend meeting center???
        (l) If inmates cannot help with cutting/pruning garden fence, we would hire external party to cut fence and add it common garden expenses.
        (m) No personal items should be left in the common access areas, in front of garage, Access to garage, at the road giving access to garage. This includes barbeque, garden chair, table foot ball, tennis table etc..
    ·     (n) Garage could be used for organized storage of acceptable material or as a garage. Garage should not be used as a gymnastics or sports center


    ##(Q3) As my 8 year old children play with neighbor's children in their garden or the neighbors children play with our children in our garden, will point (i) and (j) apply to our children too???
    ##(Q4) We do have a small shoe rack and buggy in the common area but without hindering anybody's passage. Should we remove if point (m) need to gets applied?


    WSP

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    grmff
    Pimonaute non modérable
    Lieu : Sibulaga, Onatawani
    Inscription : 25-05-2004
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    Re : New tenant issues-What the landlord/syndic can do?

    ## (Q1) Do I have the right to evict them (without paying any penalty from my side) if this becomes unbearable?

    You can ask them to leave and use it for your own family, but you have to use it for at least 2 full years. Otherwhise, you will owe them 18 months indemnity.

    You can also bring them to Justice de Paix. But, I don't know the speed in Brussels. Indeed, the tenants have 2 obligations in Belgian law:
    1. pay the rent
    2. occupy as "bon père de famille"

    They do not meet the second criteria. But will the judge follow you? Not as such. You will need to send letters and letters to your tenants, and complaint for every point in writing.

    ##(Q2) As a syndic of this apartment, can I send out following "REGLEMENT D'ORDRE INTERIEUR "?

    Yes you can. But they might not accept it... You can not change the renting conditions during the contract. There is some logic in there.

    But you can try. If they do not go against it, it will be validated by time. Your request could seem excessive to a judge.

    But is there a "règlement d'ordre intérieur"?
    Is the garage in the contract?
    Is the garden in the contract? (if you see what I mean)
    Does the city allow in their "règlement pompier" the presence of independant heaters? (some city forbid them)
    Could you put some counters (for water and electricity) to avoid excess?
    Do they have their domicile in the appartment? Do they go back to their parents house in the week-end?

    As for Q3, if you set up a rule for the occupants of the building, it is valid for everybody, of course.

    As for Q4, you should remove every personnal items from the commons. Don't expect youngsters to be considerate of the commons if you don't show the example


    Grmf!
    ----------------
    N'envie pas les autres. Tu ne sais pas ce que l'avenir leur réserve...

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    Panchito-9340
    Pimonaute
    Inscription : 24-01-2008
    Messages : 1

    Re : New tenant issues-What the landlord/syndic can do?

    Since they are students, how is it possible that you have given to them the right to reside in your property for 9 years?

    There are specific contracts for students...

    Is it a Main Residence contract?

    This is very important, since the Belgian laws protect extremely well tenants having got a standard contract (Main Residence - 9 years contracts).

    But not the other contracts....

    Can you specify which one you have given to them?

    Hors ligne

    WSP
    Pimonaute assidu
    Lieu : Brussels
    Inscription : 14-09-2011
    Messages : 83

    Re : New tenant issues-What the landlord/syndic can do?

    Panchito,

    When I say student, they are in the age group around 25 years, probaly doing bachelors or masters degree? At least one is studying law.
    I am new landlord. Assumed them to be couple living together, perhaps married.The contract was signed by both of them.

    The contract I have given to them is a standard 9 year contract picked up from the PIM web site “contrat de bail de résidence principale pour un immeuble sis dans la Région de Bruxelles-Capitale


    ” <https://www.pim.be/telechargement/bail_principal_v2009_bruxelles.pdf> :

    This 9 year Contract expires in 2020, registered with fiscal authrities within two months of signing the contract, along with "etat de lieux" done by myself and tenants.


    WSP

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    grmff
    Pimonaute non modérable
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    Inscription : 25-05-2004
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    Re : New tenant issues-What the landlord/syndic can do?

    The question of Panchito remains a very good question.

    Maybe you should take some time, and go to city hall and check if the have their adress in your building.

    The question of Panchito is one of the 7 questions I asked you. Some solutions could appear when you have the answers.


    Grmf!
    ----------------
    N'envie pas les autres. Tu ne sais pas ce que l'avenir leur réserve...

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    WSP
    Pimonaute assidu
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    Inscription : 14-09-2011
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    Re : New tenant issues-What the landlord/syndic can do?

    Grmff,


    ##(Q2) As a syndic of this apartment, can I send out following "REGLEMENT D'ORDRE INTERIEUR "?

    Yes you can. But they might not accept it... You can not change the renting conditions during the contract. There is some logic in there.

    I Looked at my signed contract which says the following:. So I am not a dding any thing new suddenly just intrudinng them to our "reglement d'interior".

    Won't they accept it?

    REGLEMENT D'ORDRE INTERIEUR – PARTIES COMMUNES
    Le Bailleur communique par la présente convention au Preneur l'existence d'un règlement d'ordre intérieur et du registre des décisions de l'assemblée générale des copropriétaires (à respecter au même titre que les obligations des présentes). Le registre peut être consulté au siège de l'association des copropriétaires. Les modifications du règlement et les futures décisions de l’assemblée générale devront être respectées par le Preneur dès leur notification par le syndic.
    Si le bien loué fait partie d'un immeuble non soumis à la législation sur la copropriété forcée des immeubles ou groupes d’immeubles bâtis, le Preneur est tenu de respecter l'éventuel règlement d'ordre intérieur annexé à la présente convention, ou créé et délivré ultérieurement, pour autant que, dans ce dernier cas, il s’applique de la même manière aux occupants ou au sein de catégories d’occupants, et qu’il contienne des obligations ressortissant à celles d’un bon père de famille.
    L’obligation du Preneur de jouir des lieux loués en bon père de famille s’applique également aux parties communes ou annexes de l’immeuble dans lequel se trouve le bien loué.
    Les animaux domestiques habituels sont autorisés dans le respect de la législation, et pour autant qu'ils ne constituent pas de gêne, nuisance, même sporadique, de quelque nature qu'elle soit.


    WSP

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    Panchito-9340
    Pimonaute
    Inscription : 24-01-2008
    Messages : 1

    Re : New tenant issues-What the landlord/syndic can do?

    But before to give them such a contract (their rights are protected for 9 years!!), I suppose you have required to see their 3 last pay slips, to be sure they have enough financial means to afford such a contract??

    Have you checked that they have registered at the commune and declared the rented place as their Main Residence??

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    Panchito-9340
    Pimonaute
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    Re : New tenant issues-What the landlord/syndic can do?

    Normally landlords require that the netpay of their potential tenants is at least equal to 3 time the amount of the rent + service charges.

    In Belgium, students can only afford what we call a "kot", with dedicated contracts (1 year max)

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    WSP
    Pimonaute assidu
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    Inscription : 14-09-2011
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    Re : New tenant issues-What the landlord/syndic can do?

    Panchito,

    Have you checked that they have registered at the commune and declared the rented place as their Main Residence??


    I will do this first thing this week. They looked decent Belgian youngsters.
    They brought each of their parents to sign the contract. Didn't suspect any foul play.  I am new to this. They have not defaulted on any rental payment or common charges yet.


    WSP

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    WSP
    Pimonaute assidu
    Lieu : Brussels
    Inscription : 14-09-2011
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    Re : New tenant issues-What the landlord/syndic can do?

    Panchito,

    In Belgium, students can only afford what we call a "kot", with dedicated contracts (1 year max)

    # It is indeed a main residence contract for nine years. What now? Am I doomed? (contract https://www.pim.be/telechargement/bail_principal_v2009_bruxelles.pdf)

    Citation :
    ## (Q1) Do I have the right to evict them (without paying any penalty from my side) if this becomes unbearable?

    You can ask them to leave and use it for your own family, but you have to use it for at least 2 full years. Otherwhise, you will owe them 18 months indemnity.

    # What if I evict them and move to first floo?. What if i rent my ground floor?  Do I still need to pay indemnity of 18 months indemnity in this case?


    WSP

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    Panchito-9340
    Pimonaute
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    Re : New tenant issues-What the landlord/syndic can do?

    And if you are the Syndic of this building, you must have the 2 most important documents of the "copropriété":
    - le règlement d'ordre intérieur
    (the clause you have in the PIM contract indicates black on white that you have given this document to your tenants)
    - l'acte de base
    (which indicates, among others, how the Syndic is allowed to charged back the running costs based on all the different repartition keys and "quotités")

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    WSP
    Pimonaute assidu
    Lieu : Brussels
    Inscription : 14-09-2011
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    Re : New tenant issues-What the landlord/syndic can do?

    Panchito,

    And if you are the Syndic of this building, you must have the 2 most important documents of the "copropriété":
    - le règlement d'ordre intérieur

    -act de base

    We do have "acte de base" which prohibits keeping personal things in the common area. It doesn't go in detail beyond a few points on any internal regulations. It deals more with what proprietors are supposed to do, how to build, how to divide cost etc.(divison of building, distibution of common parts, modification of private parts, determination of common parts, etc etc)

    There is is no separate " le règlement d'ordre intérieur" but I believe I have the authority to introduce one as I am the approved syndic as from last general body meeting co-propriters.Can't I?

    Dividing the cost per quotie part per apartment is well defined. That has been already included in the contract. Tenants are aware and signed in the contract they have to pay X % towards water, electricity and heating in the absence of meters/counters for any of them.
    So, charging them as per quotie part is not an issue.

    The biggest question is,
    -What if they are not registered with local commune? What shoudl I do in this case?
    -In case if they are registered with the local commune, can I, as syndic, introduce  a new ""REGLEMENT D'ORDRE INTERIEUR "?


    WSP

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    Panchito-9340
    Pimonaute
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    Re : New tenant issues-What the landlord/syndic can do?

    When you buy an apartment in a "copropriété" (building block with appartments belonging to different owners), the notary has the obligation to provide a lot of documents to the buyer, among other:
    - Le Règlement d'Ordre Intérieur

    That document explains all the rules on how to live together, what is allowed or not.

    Ask your notary to provide it to you ASAP, and give a copy to your tenants!

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    WSP
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    Re : New tenant issues-What the landlord/syndic can do?

    Thank you Panchito,

    I checked with our notary and found no  Le Règlement d'Ordre Intérieur
    exists. It is dealt with in acte de bas itself, just one point on living together.
    Here was the suggestion I got wrt to how to make a new d'Ordre Intérieur

    A general body meeting has to approve the new règlement d’ordre intérieur.
    This meeting can only accept a new règlement d’ordre intérieur if:
    -          More than ½ of all co-owners are present or represented and if they have together more than ½ of quoties
    A general body meeting has to approve the new règlement d’ordre intérieur.
    This meeting can only accept a new règlement d’ordre intérieur if:
    -          More than ½ of all co-owners are present or represented and if they have together more than ½ of quoties
    -          More than ¾ of all quoties agree with the new règlement d’ordre intérieur

    Going this way is the last resort. I see contract has a clause to enforce regulations of the building. I will try approaching them a few more times to  solve this issue amicably

    In the meantime, will also checked if they are residents in teh commune.
    Thanks for all your help so far Panchito & Grmff


    WSP

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    cochise
    Pimonaute incurable
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    Re : New tenant issues-What the landlord/syndic can do?

    WSP a écrit :

      They looked decent Belgian youngsters.
    They brought each of their parents to sign the contract.

    Call the parents...


    Coch'
    ********
    Notre passé est abominable et notre présent est pire; heureusement, nous n'avons pas d'avenir.

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    grmff
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    Re : New tenant issues-What the landlord/syndic can do?

    That's may be the first thing to do...


    Grmf!
    ----------------
    N'envie pas les autres. Tu ne sais pas ce que l'avenir leur réserve...

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    WSP
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    Re : New tenant issues-What the landlord/syndic can do?

    Thank you all,

    Trying the invite the tenants, with their parents this time, hope we can solve this amicably, although, They did not respond to my last two invites to discuss on this. Not very sure if my invite would be respected this time either sad

    We checked at the commune and both the tenants are registered in
    the leases apartment as this is supposed to be their main residence, as per 9 year contract signed.

    One last question, just to be informed of all consequences.

    If this becomes unbearable, I am thinking of giving a 6 months notice for them to quit. My family would move from ground floor and occupy first floor once they quit.  We have fungus/humidity issue in ground floor and needs big renovation(reeling glass paper from walls, insulation/re-painiting etc).

    I know I cannot rent the first floor apartment for 2 years from the time they quit. Does that restriction also apply to ground floor apartment where we are living now?

    So the question now is, Once I give 6 months notice/Once the tenant quits and after our family starts occupying the first floor:-
    -Is there any legal restriction in me renovating & renting the ground floor apartment (the leased apartment is in first floor where we will live for more than  2 years)

    Thanks a bunch!!


    WSP

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    WSP
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    Re : New tenant issues-What the landlord/syndic can do?

    -(1)Is there any legal restriction in me renovating & renting the ground floor apartment (the leased apartment is in first floor where we will live for more than 2 years)

    -(2)Do I still need to pay indemnity of 18 months rent in case of renting my ground floor apartment while the lease I signed/broke was for first floor apartment?


    WSP

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    grmff
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    Re : New tenant issues-What the landlord/syndic can do?

    (1) No
    (2) No, unless you stay less than 2 years.


    Grmf!
    ----------------
    N'envie pas les autres. Tu ne sais pas ce que l'avenir leur réserve...

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    WSP
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    Re : New tenant issues-What the landlord/syndic can do?

    Dear All,

    Things happened so fast over the weekend.

    # My tenants didn't want to bring thier parents to a discussion, as they didn't feel it deemed necessary for them

    # While I tried setiing up another appointment for end of this months without thir parents, it ended up ina heated discussion. My Blood pressure jumped high for teh first time after thaht an nver came down till date

    # On the weekend Saturday at 9 PM, they statredt playing Table football again in first floor, results my kids couldn't sleep in ground floor.. After a couple of SMSes to stop and his response, My Blood Pressure touched the roof and I felt was having  cardiac arrest. Called an ambulance, got hospitalised, they confirmed by elveated pressure , monitored me for cardiac issues,  eventaully dischargedd me middle of night Sunday.
    # Had to go back again within 30 minutes teh same night to same hospital and they suspect I am havinga stoke, losing sense with left side of body(arms and legs couldn't felt) and recorded teh following

    “Suppicion de dissection aortique"

    # Eventually I got discharged Sunday morning with no much havoc with a decsion that I may have to take life long ploodpressure control medication
    # When I cambe back home this Table Football continued in thier floor at 10AM Sunday and I couldn't still catch a wink of sleep and didn't have guts to anything anymore

    # yesterday I have sent an email saying, hereafter, I am unwilling to meet him as I went sick after the last meetings, hospitalised and not in a position to see them in person anymore

    With this he responds the following

    Vu votre mauvaise foi, il est préférable de faire appel à un tiers.
    Dès demain, nous irons nous informer auprès de la Justice de paix de<my commune> pour intenter une procédure en conciliation.

    # I didn't sleep overnight and prepared a 70 page document proving all teh harassments we have been going through recently although we were trying our best to resolve it amicably.

    What are my options now?

    (1) I have made a letter as the building syndic asking to stop his specifique behavior which changes the characteristics, serenity and tranquillity of this "maison de maitre converted apartments". I am yet to post it but not sure what his reaction wouyld be

    (2) I wish to send a 6 months notice  that I need my apartment back for my own family but I don't know if I can withstand hell for another six or will I die dealing with him

    (3)Initiate conciliation and arbitration myself  right now or work with him to join for the mediation but I am NOT sure what heis upto. Doeshe wantt o go out or negotaiate previleges to stay back? My motto is  he needs to go out ASAP

    (4). I can meet Judge de Paix in 10 minutes with this 70 page doc and a medical report which shows things changed drastically with my health due the  stress I had been going though and they my three children and my unemployed wife may not have me anymore alive due to harassment from the tenants. Although I am nots sure if the judge will be favorable to me and relieve me from this stress not having to wait 6 months

    What I do do?
    -(1)Go to Judge de Paix myself?
    -(2)-File a complaint ith Police if I die, they are responsible?
    -(3)Go for reconciliation and mediation myself through mediators at Judge de paix?
    -(4)Or simply send a syndic letter stopping all his behavior and wait his reaction?
    -(5)-Send a lease termination notice with 6 months that it reaches him before end of this month?

    I am clueless. Can somebody help me come out of this hell????


    WSP

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