New tenant issues-What the landlord/syndic can do?

Panchito-9340 · #1 10-04-2012 13:21:17

Ah..you are a Belgian citizen? All my apologizes, I have believed you were an expat...

Following the Belgian laws, married partners must share a common residence = domicile conjugal.

Article 214 of the Belgian laws:HERE

If your tenants hire a lawyer you will need to be whiter than Snow White...

WSP · #41 10-04-2012 12:48:59

Hi all,

Regarding my residency status:

# I am not a resident as of today but my family(spouse and three children) are residents. We are all Belgian citizens too.

# They(my family) are currently living in the ground floor and will move to first floor. It is basically asking tenants to move to give place for my family, not me. This will not be a fictious occupation either. My family simply moves up.

# if I need to become resident, I can do so tomorrow. File the "Requet and send termination letter teh day after.

# Becoming a resident is a 5 minutes job for me. It doesn't bring complication with taxes due to mutual tax treaties with the country i am employed. But dual residency does bring some social security complications,issues with car registration, driving license exchange etc etc..

(1) Do you want me to become resident to send an authentic"Standard Requête" with Judge de Paix?
(2) Is it necessary that I am resident here? Or..Is it suffice my family occupies it for next two years?
(3) Thanks Grmfff..Do I need to modify following template to reflect personal occupation of my family (and not ME)?

Par la présente, je vous signifie le congé pour occupation personnelle du logement que vous occupez.

Panchito-9340 · #42 10-04-2012 12:46:28

No. But you have to occupy the appartment. The occupation mustn't be fictive... And it must last at least 2 years.

I am sorry but I don't think it is feasable...

In fact, how will you prove you really occupy the place if you are not resident in Belgium?

Moreover, following the Belgian laws, any non-Belgian is required to apply to get a Resident Permit as soon (s)he intends to reside for more 3 months in Belgium. This is compulsory.

As soon you have got a Resident Permit, your address in Belgium is considered as your Main Residence and you become a Belgian Taxpayer, which means you have the legal obligation to declare in your annual Belgian tax forms, your worldwide revenues, bank accounts and assets.

So legally, I don't think it will work.

I would ask the opinion of a Belgian lawyer specialized in Expat taxation issues.

grmff · #43 10-04-2012 12:03:55

Panchito-9340 · #44 10-04-2012 12:01:25

OK, then I will ask to WSP to come back on this forum to tell us if it is possible to trigger a court case in Belgium however you are not a Belgian resident (and, as such, are not taxable here)...

grmff · #45 10-04-2012 11:53:26

Le texte de loi dit:

§ 2. Le bailleur peut toutefois mettre fin au bail, à tout moment, en donnant congé six mois à l'avance, s'il a l'intention d'occuper le bien personnellement et effectivement

Il ne dit pas qu'il faut y être domicilié.

Panchito-9340 · #46 10-04-2012 11:22:35

@grmff...

ET si vous n'êtes pas domicilié en Belgique, où le Juge va-t'il faire envoyer les plis judiciaires?

J'ai eu des locataires qui se sont "évadés" à l'étranger après être partis à la cloche de bois, pour éviter toutes poursuites...

grmff · #47 10-04-2012 11:14:27

If you are not resident in Belgium and as such not resident in this building you can't make usage of this clause!!

Not correct. You have to use the residence. It is not said it must be your main résidence.

Panchito-9340 · #48 10-04-2012 11:06:14

If you are not resident in Belgium and as such not resident in this building you can't make usage of this clause!!

If they can prove your main residence is not located in the place they have rented, you will have to pay to them 18 months of rent!!

WSP · #49 10-04-2012 11:05:08

(7). Any lawyer recommendations who can deal with this? Any idea how much will this cost if I have to bear it myself (if no juridique protection)?

WSP · #50 10-04-2012 10:55:00

Thank you all folks!!! Much appreciated.

# Visited Judge de Paix and collected forms for "Standard Requête" and Reconcilation". Understand "Standard Requête" is recommended.
Got a response from them that I could send termination letter and apply for "Requête" in parallel, which still may take another 3 months

# Do not wish to approach the parents as we simply don't want them as this will be an eternal problem

# Will send a termination letter using following clause this week so that they can receive before this month end.

- à tout moment, en donnant un congé six mois à l’avance, s’il a l’intention d’occuper le bien personnellement et effectivement ou de le faire occuper de la même manière par ses descendants, ses enfants adoptifs, ses ascendants, son conjoint, les descendants, ascendants et enfants adoptifs de celui-ci, ses collatéraux et les collatéraux de son conjoint jusqu’au 3ème degré ;

# I may have "protection juridique" but not sure I would be covered anymore since I become non-resident working outside Belgium. Will still check with my insurance company

(1) Does anybody have a template in French to break rental contract.CONTRAT DE BAIL - RESIDENCE PRINCIPALE (Région de Bruxelles-Capitale)
https://www.pim.be/telechargement/bail_principal_v2009_bruxelles.pdf
Reason for breaking: I just need the apartment back as I need it for my own family and will give 6 calendar months notice

(2) What are the etiquette I need to follow to send a termination notice.?

(3) Assuming I send "envoye recommende avec accuse de reception" termination letter to both tenants reaches before 31st of April, notice starts effective May 1st and October 31st should be there last day to leave, Correct?

(4) What if the letter doesn't reach/not accepted before end of this month?
(a) What if the tenants don't accept the notice at all?
(b) what is they accept it next month? This changes notice period?

(5) Does my wife , married spouse, need to sign the termination letter too? She was not involved in signing the lease contract. It was only me who signed it.

(6) I was a resident here while signing the contract but non-resident now. doers that influence the termination anyway?

grmff · #51 10-04-2012 09:12:24

Additionnally, contact the parents... It might be the most efficient!

Personnally, in an old past life, I sent a Recommandé (registered letter) to the tenant, at his home adress, without the first name.

The father, having the same name, received the letter, and phoned me to get more explanations. The problem was solved within the week.

I had the problem with 2 tenants. The other one was from a split family, living with the mother. So, it didn't work with the second one that way...

Good luck to you.

grmff · #52 10-04-2012 09:02:24

Personnally, I would send them a termination letter, so they have to veave within 6 months.

Additionnally, I would put the affair in justice de paix. Not in Conciliation, but with a standard Requête.

Conciliation, as far as my experience goes, is slower than Requête. And in conciliation, if they are of bad faith, it will change nothing and you will have to go back to Requête.

Don't wait for them to go to conciliation... it will slow the process.

Panchito-9340 · #53 10-04-2012 08:46:59

Given such an escalation and your health situation, the best is to hire a lawyer so that you can rely on him.

Do you have an insurance called "protection juridique"?

WSP · #54 10-04-2012 08:38:18

Dear All,

Things happened so fast over the weekend.

# My tenants didn't want to bring thier parents to a discussion, as they didn't feel it deemed necessary for them

# While I tried setiing up another appointment for end of this months without thir parents, it ended up ina heated discussion. My Blood pressure jumped high for teh first time after thaht an nver came down till date

# On the weekend Saturday at 9 PM, they statredt playing Table football again in first floor, results my kids couldn't sleep in ground floor.. After a couple of SMSes to stop and his response, My Blood Pressure touched the roof and I felt was having cardiac arrest. Called an ambulance, got hospitalised, they confirmed by elveated pressure , monitored me for cardiac issues, eventaully dischargedd me middle of night Sunday.
# Had to go back again within 30 minutes teh same night to same hospital and they suspect I am havinga stoke, losing sense with left side of body(arms and legs couldn't felt) and recorded teh following

“Suppicion de dissection aortique"

# Eventually I got discharged Sunday morning with no much havoc with a decsion that I may have to take life long ploodpressure control medication
# When I cambe back home this Table Football continued in thier floor at 10AM Sunday and I couldn't still catch a wink of sleep and didn't have guts to anything anymore

# yesterday I have sent an email saying, hereafter, I am unwilling to meet him as I went sick after the last meetings, hospitalised and not in a position to see them in person anymore

With this he responds the following

Vu votre mauvaise foi, il est préférable de faire appel à un tiers.
Dès demain, nous irons nous informer auprès de la Justice de paix de<my commune> pour intenter une procédure en conciliation.

# I didn't sleep overnight and prepared a 70 page document proving all teh harassments we have been going through recently although we were trying our best to resolve it amicably.

What are my options now?

(1) I have made a letter as the building syndic asking to stop his specifique behavior which changes the characteristics, serenity and tranquillity of this "maison de maitre converted apartments". I am yet to post it but not sure what his reaction wouyld be

(2) I wish to send a 6 months notice that I need my apartment back for my own family but I don't know if I can withstand hell for another six or will I die dealing with him

(3)Initiate conciliation and arbitration myself right now or work with him to join for the mediation but I am NOT sure what heis upto. Doeshe wantt o go out or negotaiate previleges to stay back? My motto is he needs to go out ASAP

(4). I can meet Judge de Paix in 10 minutes with this 70 page doc and a medical report which shows things changed drastically with my health due the stress I had been going though and they my three children and my unemployed wife may not have me anymore alive due to harassment from the tenants. Although I am nots sure if the judge will be favorable to me and relieve me from this stress not having to wait 6 months

What I do do?
-(1)Go to Judge de Paix myself?
-(2)-File a complaint ith Police if I die, they are responsible?
-(3)Go for reconciliation and mediation myself through mediators at Judge de paix?
-(4)Or simply send a syndic letter stopping all his behavior and wait his reaction?
-(5)-Send a lease termination notice with 6 months that it reaches him before end of this month?

I am clueless. Can somebody help me come out of this hell????

grmff · #55 27-03-2012 16:23:19

(1) No
(2) No, unless you stay less than 2 years.

WSP · #56 27-03-2012 12:00:44

-(1)Is there any legal restriction in me renovating & renting the ground floor apartment (the leased apartment is in first floor where we will live for more than 2 years)

-(2)Do I still need to pay indemnity of 18 months rent in case of renting my ground floor apartment while the lease I signed/broke was for first floor apartment?

WSP · #57 27-03-2012 11:57:26

Thank you all,

Trying the invite the tenants, with their parents this time, hope we can solve this amicably, although, They did not respond to my last two invites to discuss on this. Not very sure if my invite would be respected this time either sad

We checked at the commune and both the tenants are registered in
the leases apartment as this is supposed to be their main residence, as per 9 year contract signed.

One last question, just to be informed of all consequences.

If this becomes unbearable, I am thinking of giving a 6 months notice for them to quit. My family would move from ground floor and occupy first floor once they quit. We have fungus/humidity issue in ground floor and needs big renovation(reeling glass paper from walls, insulation/re-painiting etc).

I know I cannot rent the first floor apartment for 2 years from the time they quit. Does that restriction also apply to ground floor apartment where we are living now?

So the question now is, Once I give 6 months notice/Once the tenant quits and after our family starts occupying the first floor:-
-Is there any legal restriction in me renovating & renting the ground floor apartment (the leased apartment is in first floor where we will live for more than 2 years)

Thanks a bunch!!

grmff · #58 21-03-2012 18:44:33

That's may be the first thing to do...

cochise · #59 21-03-2012 18:42:46

WSP a écrit :

They looked decent Belgian youngsters.
They brought each of their parents to sign the contract.

Call the parents...

WSP · #60 20-03-2012 21:05:33

(Please forgive me in writing this in English; My french is at very beginner level)

I am a new landlord plus syndic of a "maison de maitre" converted to three apartments.
I own ~80% of the building.

I live in the ground floor. Unknowingly, I leased my first floor apartment for 9 years last July 2011 to two students.
I assumed they were couple or married. These couple?? occupied this apartment since September 2011.

After 3 or months, problems started from them. Although they pay rent in time,
they are treating this "single family/maison de maitre" as their own.

# They do not respect other tenants or adjacent neighbors in the street
# They converted garage into a gymnastic centre with bunch of gym equipments setup.They use electrical heating and music doing gym in the garage. (we need to pass through their garage to goto our garage or backgarden)
# They also have table football and table tennis setup in one of the bedrooms.
# They play indoor football or ping pong even after 10PM with their visitor friends. WE told them children cannot sleep but they do not stop playing indoor games after 10 PM.
# They do conduct party every weekend with friends. Sometimes They make loud noise after 10 PM.(Building from 70s and not sound-proof)
# They moved out barbeque to the common backgarden and left it there for more than a week now.
# I had to call them at atleast twice to remove their car from the common area as my car couldn't enter or leave
# I am worried when they will bring out thier garden tabel/chair and leave it in common area.
# They also invite friends who come to play table tennis pr football with them either in the common backgarden or in their garage or in one of their bedrooms.
# They flush out at least bathtubs every day since they know they have to pay for water based on quotite part.

## (Q1) Do I have the right to evict them (without paying any penalty from my side) if this becomes unbearable?
(I have a valid reason as my 3 children need more space so we can always sent a six months notice requesting them to quit as we need it for our children, )
The template I used for signing the contract was The contract templates were taken from PIM and the form is “contrat de bail de résidence principale pour un immeuble sis dans la Région de Bruxelles-Capitale” <https://www.pim.be/telechargement/bail_principal_v2009_bruxelles.pdf> :
My contract say:
"- à tout moment, en donnant un congé six mois à l’avance, s’il a l’intention d’occuper le bien personnellement et effectivement ou de le faire occuper de la même manière par ses descendants, ses enfants adoptifs, ses ascendants, son conjoint, les descendants,"

##(Q2) As a syndic of this apartment, can I send out following "REGLEMENT D'ORDRE INTERIEUR "?
(a) Tenants & inmates need to respect other tenants/neighbors
(b) Tenants & inmates need to respect the apartment
(c) Keep the front door to street locked after 8 PM
(d) Keep the garage door and access to garage door locked all the time
(e) Except for loading/unloading, cars should not be parked in access-road/approach to our garage or in front of the garage
(f) Do not play any indoor games after 8 PM
(g) Do not make loud noise/music/sound after 8 PM
(h) Do not use high heels shoes in the upper floors
(i) Using fire crackers are not allowed anywhere in the building premises
(j) Setting up barbeque are not allowed anywhere in the building premises
(h) Electrical heater should not be used anywhere in the building premises.
(i) No visitor or guest should be allowed access to garage, back garden or garage access area
(j) No visitors or guests should be allowed to play any indoor or outdoor sports or games in the building premises
(k) Apartment premises, inside or outside, should not be used as a party venue or weekend meeting center???
(l) If inmates cannot help with cutting/pruning garden fence, we would hire external party to cut fence and add it common garden expenses.
(m) No personal items should be left in the common access areas, in front of garage, Access to garage, at the road giving access to garage. This includes barbeque, garden chair, table foot ball, tennis table etc..
· (n) Garage could be used for organized storage of acceptable material or as a garage. Garage should not be used as a gymnastics or sports center

##(Q3) As my 8 year old children play with neighbor's children in their garden or the neighbors children play with our children in our garden, will point (i) and (j) apply to our children too???
##(Q4) We do have a small shoe rack and buggy in the common area but without hindering anybody's passage. Should we remove if point (m) need to gets applied?

New tenant issues-What the landlord/syndic can do?

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