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    9 yr lease-Tenants not accepting lease termination notice

    WSP
    Pimonaute assidu
    Lieu : Brussels
    Inscription : 14-09-2011
    Messages : 83

    9 yr lease-Tenants not accepting lease termination notice

    Folks,

    Tenants not accepting legal notice
    I am trying to break a 9 year lease on the first year with a letter as cited here

    Cher Monsieur le locataire,

    Par la présente, je vous signifie le congé pour occupation personnelle du logement que vous occupez.
    Le préavis légal de 6 mois commencera le 1/5/2012 et prendra fin le 30/10/2012.
    Veuillez noter que vous avez le droit de donner un contre-préavis de un mois à tout moment

    I have sent a "envoye recommende avec accuse de reception" to BOTH tenants dated last Thursday 12/4/2012.


    Postoffice attempted delivery on 13/4/2012 but they have not collected it in the last four days..

    B post tracking for both letters is the same since last Friday the 13th, although I know both are in TOWN, in the apartment every day

    13/04/2012    11:51    Envoi présenté - destinataire absent - avis laissé     WOLUWE-ST-LAMBERT MAIL

    Envoi présenté - destinataire absent - avis laissé, item presented - addressee absent - message left

    [color=#E00000]
    (1) Since the postoffice attempted delivery on 13th April 11:51 hrs, can we confirm that the 6 months notice starts on May 1st?
    (2) What do I do if they do not accept the lease termination?
    (3) Is there any other means to notify the tenants of lease termination?
    (4) Should I need to attempt another means of delivering this lease termination ?
    (5) What should I do with the bounced/returned latter in case if they do not accept it?
    ## I can deliver in person before and ask for signature from a copy of the letter delivered confirming they have received it, but NOT sure if they would sign it
    ## I can just put a copy in their postbox but there is no proof to confirm if they have received it
    ## I can send a scanned copy of notice as PDF via email with Bpost tracking info , nudging to accept it.
    [/couleur]

    Tenant indemnity in case if he wants to break lease in this 6 months notice
    The template I used for signing the 9 year contract was  taken from PIM website and the form is “contrat de bail de résidence principale pour un immeuble sis dans la Région de Bruxelles-Capitale” <https://www.pim.be/telechargement/bail_principal_v2009_bruxelles.pdf> :


    The contract states that"

    De son côté, le Preneur peut mettre fin au bail à tout moment, moyennant un congé de trois mois, et le paiement d’une indemnité égale à trois mois, deux mois ou un mois de loyer selon que le bail prend fin au cours de la 1ère, de la 2ème ou de la 3ème année.

    Now that I have given them 6 months notice for my family's own occupation, I need to know my rights what if the tenants want to leave within this 6 months notice period?

    They are in the first year of 9 year lease. Second year of lease starts on September 2012.
    [color=#E00000]
    (6) Are they supposed to pay any indemnity in case if they want to leave within these six months notice period from May to Oct 2012?
    [/couleur]


    A clause in my termination notice
    A clause in my termination notice says the following

    !!!!Veuillez noter que vous avez le droit de donner un contre-préavis de un mois à tout moment.!!!????
    Bien à vous

    [color=#E00000]
    (7) Could somebody please clarify what it means?
    (8) Does this clause anyway influence the indemnity tenants have to pay in case if they wish to break lease during this 6 months notice period?
    (9) With the above clause, can they just give one month notice anytime and walk out without paying any indemnity?
    [/couleur]

    tenants conciliation request with Judge de Paix
    Tenant filed the following conciliation request, date of meeting May 3rd. I have an option to postpone it for another day as I believe need to ensure that they acknowledge the lease termination first.

    Water Heater problem reported below has been resolved within 24 hours of tenants gave an appointment to bring a technician.Although no technician confirmed the issue is due to old age, no technician confirmed any "gas smell", I intend to replace the water heaters at the earliest convenience.

    Trouble de jouissance pa le fait du proprietaire et autres.

    Odurs de gas, pas d'eau chaude et refus d'intervention, dans la facture du baileur

    Resolution du bail

    I have a feeling I have nothing to gain from the conciliation.
    I could rather have them for six months to get myself ready for the move.
    Although, I am worried if they will move forward with a "requette" with Justice de Paix if I don't go for conciliation or send me a lawyer notice as they have many lawyer friends.

    They don't have any strong proof either. 

    (a)# I do not have proof of "entretien complete" from within 3 months of tenants occupying in Sep 2011.
    (b)# I have a proof from water Heater company who fixed heating issue in October 2011
    (c)# I have fixed water heater problem aagin , at my cost, albeit it is a technical issue, normally the responsibility of tenant, but I undertook to do that due to (a)#


    [color=#E00000]
    (10) Do I need to go for conciliation with Judge de paix(concilier) dated May 3rd (whether they accept lease terination notice or not)?
    (11) Is the above query strong enough for them to quit without indemnity, within this 6 months period of notice I have given them?
    (12) How fast is the requteet procedure in WSP?
    (13) What if my 6 notice period ends before that?
    [/couleur]


    WSP

    Hors ligne

    Panchito-9340
    Pimonaute
    Inscription : 24-01-2008
    Messages : 1

    Re : 9 yr lease-Tenants not accepting lease termination notice

    As soon you send a registered letter, the recipient has had the possibility to be informed of its content.

    So, legally speaking, it is not your problem if your tenants collect it or not.

    By the way, usually, I always send a registered letter that indicates that the same letter has also been send by fax and /or email and /or normal post. So there is no doubt at all they have had all the possibilities to be informed.

    If they don't collect it, you will get it back via a registered letter proving that they didn't bother to collect it. You must keep all those proofs.

    Hors ligne

    Panchito-9340
    Pimonaute
    Inscription : 24-01-2008
    Messages : 1

    Re : 9 yr lease-Tenants not accepting lease termination notice

    I have forgotten to tell you that your registered letter will remain at their disposal at the post office during 2 weeks, before it is send back to you.

    Hors ligne

    grmff
    Pimonaute non modérable
    Lieu : Sibulaga, Onatawani
    Inscription : 25-05-2004
    Messages : 16 370
    Site Web

    Re : 9 yr lease-Tenants not accepting lease termination notice

    (1) Since the postoffice attempted delivery on 13th April 11:51 hrs, can we confirm that the 6 months notice starts on May 1st?
    (2) What do I do if they do not accept the lease termination?
    (3) Is there any other means to notify the tenants of lease termination?
    (4) Should I need to attempt another means of delivering this lease termination ?
    (5) What should I do with the bounced/returned latter in case if they do not accept it?
    ## I can deliver in person before and ask for signature from a copy of the letter delivered confirming they have received it, but NOT sure if they would sign it
    ## I can just put a copy in their postbox but there is no proof to confirm if they have received it
    ## I can send a scanned copy of notice as PDF via email with Bpost tracking info , nudging to accept it.

    As said Panchito, if they don't go and get it, it's not your problem.
    But you should put a copy in their std mail.

    If they give a counter notice, they don't owe you any indemnity. But if you stay less than 18 months, you don't owe them anything either!

    Note that this clause is the law. It is not a special right you grant them!

    As for the conciliation, you should go.

    As for the delay in WSP, no udea

    Good luck


    Grmf!
    ----------------
    N'envie pas les autres. Tu ne sais pas ce que l'avenir leur réserve...

    En ligne

    Panchito-9340
    Pimonaute
    Inscription : 24-01-2008
    Messages : 1

    Re : 9 yr lease-Tenants not accepting lease termination notice

    Is it WSP or WSL?

    Hors ligne

    grmff
    Pimonaute non modérable
    Lieu : Sibulaga, Onatawani
    Inscription : 25-05-2004
    Messages : 16 370
    Site Web

    Re : 9 yr lease-Tenants not accepting lease termination notice

    I don't know the delays in either canton.

    You can get an idea easily: Go to the greffe (or phone them), and ask the delay. You will know...


    Grmf!
    ----------------
    N'envie pas les autres. Tu ne sais pas ce que l'avenir leur réserve...

    En ligne

    WSP
    Pimonaute assidu
    Lieu : Brussels
    Inscription : 14-09-2011
    Messages : 83

    Re : 9 yr lease-Tenants not accepting lease termination notice

    Thank you Panchito and Grmff

    I hope to get an easy way out of this mess.

    Thanks again!!!


    WSP

    Hors ligne

    Panchito-9340
    Pimonaute
    Inscription : 24-01-2008
    Messages : 1

    Re : 9 yr lease-Tenants not accepting lease termination notice

    The delays are simply huge in WSP.

    I don't know for WSL...

    Hors ligne

    WSP
    Pimonaute assidu
    Lieu : Brussels
    Inscription : 14-09-2011
    Messages : 83

    Re : 9 yr lease-Tenants not accepting lease termination notice

    By the way, I see they both have accepted the registered letter today evening. Will see if they send a counter-notice.

    The commune is WSP. The appointed date for the conciliation is really hard for me. I was out of office one week due to the health issues, result of encounter with them.


    Being in Brussels on a Thursday means I need to approach back to my office, which is out of the country, seeking permission to stay away for the whole week.So practical difficulties!

    Secondly, even if I go to conciliation with a translator friend, I am not sure of the outcome. It is two  tenants against one, I am the odd-man-out, can't speak local language sad

    Now I realize that I have given them what they want, they don't need to pay any indemnity, can go out with one month  notice, whenever they want in the next six months I suppose!

    Only catch is, They just need to find another apartment where a landlord could take their dog, could let them do barbeque, play PingPong and Table Football, would not ask for pay-slip from both of these 25 years old academicians, one "sans profession", other "Vendeur et demonstrateur en magasins"]


    ...and loads of sports equipment and second car , and a bunch of friends, will all arrive one by one slowly but steadily, after renting!!!

    Is this conciliation still making sense?!- Unless they want indemnity from me for not having hot water for one day or they want indemnity as suspected gas smell in October 2011 but didn't call sibelga.


    WSP

    Hors ligne

    Panchito-9340
    Pimonaute
    Inscription : 24-01-2008
    Messages : 1

    Re : 9 yr lease-Tenants not accepting lease termination notice

    They just need to find another apartment where a landlord could take their dog, could let them do barbeque, play PingPong and Table Football, would not ask for pay-slip from both of these 25 years old academicians, one "sans profession", other "Vendeur et demonstrateur en magasins"]

    As Landlady renting out apartments in WSP (a.o), I would never accept such tenants... too bad credentials (in fact no credentials at all!!).

    Like I said, tenant candidates in WSP are often very wealthy expats working for the EEC or one of the multiple American or European HQ located in Brussels (and / or Zaventem-Evere-Diegem)

    Never students or unemployed candidates. That is impossible: they can't afford to rent properties in WSP!!

    WSP is, with Uccle, the most posh (and expensive) communes of the Capital of Europe!

    Hors ligne

    grmff
    Pimonaute non modérable
    Lieu : Sibulaga, Onatawani
    Inscription : 25-05-2004
    Messages : 16 370
    Site Web

    Re : 9 yr lease-Tenants not accepting lease termination notice

    Conciliation is still making sense.

    Your spouse can also go and represent you at the conciliation, with a "mandat"


    Grmf!
    ----------------
    N'envie pas les autres. Tu ne sais pas ce que l'avenir leur réserve...

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