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    RULES ON RENOVATION NOISE IN A APARTMENT BUILDING

    WSP
    Pimonaute assidu
    Lieu : Brussels
    Inscription : 14-09-2011
    Messages : 83

    RULES ON RENOVATION NOISE IN A APARTMENT BUILDING

    Hello,

    I am the land-lord and syndic for a small "maison de maitre" converted to three apartments. Apartment located in Woluwe-Saint-Pierre(Bruxelles capital region)

    I am living in ground floor and we have a tenant upstairs. Top floor is empty.I need to renovate the bathroom. This involves removing ceramic tiles and bathtub and installing new tiles and bathtub.

    I am sure removing tiles will bring some noise.

    (1) What are the rules related to noise associated to renovation inside an apartment building?
    (2) Can this be done during the weekends ? Sundays and public holidays? Any restrictions on which hours of the day this could be done?
    (3) Any procedure in notifying inmates of this renovation work?
    - a short note in the common area will do?
    -how soon we need to notify, few days , week, two weeks?
    (4) What if they object and say they have an exam and can't be done for, say next two months?


    WSP

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    Panchito-9340
    Pimonaute
    Inscription : 24-01-2008
    Messages : 1

    Re : RULES ON RENOVATION NOISE IN A APARTMENT BUILDING

    Since you are both Syndic and owner, you certainly have a "règlement d'ordre intérieur" which describe precisely what is allowed or not in your "copropriété".
    Please refer to this document (should have been given to you by your notaire when you have bought your apartment)

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    grmff
    Pimonaute non modérable
    Lieu : Sibulaga, Onatawani
    Inscription : 25-05-2004
    Messages : 16 369
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    Re : RULES ON RENOVATION NOISE IN A APARTMENT BUILDING

    If they are real student, and your own tenant (not "sous-locataire...), it would be normal not to do works like this in june...


    Grmf!
    ----------------
    N'envie pas les autres. Tu ne sais pas ce que l'avenir leur réserve...

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    Panfrites
    Pimonaute
    Lieu : BruSel
    Inscription : 02-06-2012
    Messages : 1

    Re : RULES ON RENOVATION NOISE IN A APARTMENT BUILDING

    2) Basically, noise rules tend to vary by commune. But in practice, you can raise merry hell from 7:00 to 22:00 without fear from Monday to Saturday, and you should expect complaints on a Sunday or out of hours.
    If whatever DIY you are doing does not involve noise, then no restrictions whatsoever.
    3) Almost certainly not. It would be polite to tell the neighbors that work is scheduled, but unless there's something in a contract somewhere that you already know about (you are after all the landlord AND syndic...)
    4) I guess the work you need to do is so you can rent out the last bit of the property? Sure - delay it for 2 months for your tenant with exams. But only if they agree to pay for the extra 2 months that the property will be void. But get something like that in a binding contract. smile

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    WSP
    Pimonaute assidu
    Lieu : Brussels
    Inscription : 14-09-2011
    Messages : 83

    Re : RULES ON RENOVATION NOISE IN A APARTMENT BUILDING

    Counter-response from tenant with one month terminantion notice,d ated 29th May, Reception 2nd July

    Changing the subject of this thread based on renewed situation since yesterday June 2nd.

    -I have signed a 9 year lease which started Sep 2011 with two youngsters, aged 25, who claimed they were students (although residence certifcate form commune states one is unemployed and other is demonstrator in magasins). I believe,  one or both are studying law ,as they claim theselves as acedemicians. One of the tenant seems to have disappeared too, not living together anymore?

    -The contract type signed is (CONTRAT DE BAIL - RESIDENCE PRINCIPALE (Région de Bruxelles-Capitale)
    link:https://www.pim.be/telechargement/bail_principal_v2009_bruxelles.pdf
    -Ran into several issues with them
    -Gave a termination notice April 12th that they need to vacate in 6 months, on or before October 31st, as I need apartment for my own use now
    -they also have right to leave with one month notice
    -The changed situation since yesterday is , I have collected a registered  letter yesterday June 2nd which states the following:

    Bruxelels, le Mardi 29 Mai 2012
    Monsieur WSP;

    Suite à votre courrier recommandé du 12 avril 2012 nous donnant congé de l'appartment que nous vous prenons en location, nous vous faisons part de notre intention de résilier ce contrat de location de l'appartment situé au premier étage de rue ,,,, .location que nous occupons depuis 1er september 2011,

    La résiliation sera effective le 1er juillet 2012, respectant ainsi le délai de contre-prévis d'un mois. Nous nous tenons à votre disposition tout inormation complémentaire.

    Dans l'attente de votre réponse, je vour prie d'agréer, Monsieur, l'expression de nos salutations distinuguées.

    Signed
    locataire 1, locaitaire 2

    So this a new situation since yetserday June 2nd,

    I am afraid I do have different questions now.

    [couleur=#800000][date of acceptance of registration letter from tenant][/couleur]
    Although tenant wants to start notice period for month starting June 1st, I only had the opportunity to accept tis letter  yesterday June 2nd (I do have transport proof that I have returned back to country 2nd June late night)

    [color=#000080]
    -(1)What are my rights now as a landlord? Since I received the letter on June 2nd, Can I assume that one month notice period of tenant starts on July 1st? Is it fair to expect that he pays rent for the month of July?
    -(2) If answer to above question is yes, do I need to respond to him accepting his request but pointing out notice period of one month starts from July 1st? Or simply don't respond as they would know by tracking I accepted it on June 2nd?
    -(3) Will it be an offense if I don't respond/reply but simply ask for July's rent when he quits?[/couleur]

    [color=#800000]tenant not paying provisional charges and pays rent delayed[/couleur]
    Tenant has a rental guarantee for two months blocked in a bank account.

    -He did not pay agreed provisional charge for the month of May, 32 days gone unpaid (which has been stated in the contract and date of payment is 1st of  every month)
    -He paid rent for May 15 days late
    -There was no communication/warning till date on this regard, with respect to any delay in  payment
    -Before receiving this termination note from tenant dated 29th May, I have already sent a registered letter dated 26th May, to both the tenants quoting that they didnot pay provisional charges for month of May,asked to pay by 30th May. Also warned that if this practice of delayed payment or not paying continues, I will file a "standard Requette" with Justice de paix.

    As the syndic, Bank sent me a letter and state syndic account is blocked (as the account went negative since tenant didn't pay his provisional charges). They do not agree to a overdraft as it is non-revenue enterprise account.I am worried as they use all resources water, heating, common electricity. The provisional charges they pay are very less and end of fiscal accounting June 31st, they may need to pay another ~500 euro more towards actual charges based on consumtion(water, heating etc)

    [color=#0000E0](4) What should I do if they don't pay rent ?
    (5) what should I do if they don't pay provisional charges?
    (6) How long should I wait before taking action?
    (7) There is NO money in syndic account and we can't pay. Will it become illegal if we, say shut down water or stop electricity to common area etc?
    (8) I am a first time landlord and new to all these stuff. In case of filing a "standard requette" with judge de paix, what is better?-Do it myself or do it through a lawyer?
    [/couleur]


    WSP

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    Panchito-9340
    Pimonaute
    Inscription : 24-01-2008
    Messages : 1

    Re : RULES ON RENOVATION NOISE IN A APARTMENT BUILDING

    Although tenant wants to start notice period for month starting June 1st, I only had the opportunity to accept tis letter yesterday June 2nd (I do have transport proof that I have returned back to country 2nd June late night)

    Not their problem!!
    The Belgian laws consider you had the opportunity to be informed in due date (date of the sending of the registered letter + 2 days).

    So your argumentation is rejected.

    Open a good bottle of Champagne, finally you got what you desired so much: They are finally leaving your property and this nightmare is over!!

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    Panchito-9340
    Pimonaute
    Inscription : 24-01-2008
    Messages : 1

    Re : RULES ON RENOVATION NOISE IN A APARTMENT BUILDING

    Is it fair to expect that he pays rent for the month of July?

    No, they only have to pay June.

    Once June is paid and the exit house inspection took place, they may leave when then want!

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    Panchito-9340
    Pimonaute
    Inscription : 24-01-2008
    Messages : 1

    Re : RULES ON RENOVATION NOISE IN A APARTMENT BUILDING

    As the syndic, Bank sent me a letter and state syndic account is blocked (as the account went negative since tenant didn't pay his provisional charges).

    As Syndic, you do have the legal obligation to make sure the bank account of the "copropriété" never goes in the red.

    It was your obligation to call money from the other co-owners to cover the gap!!

    You have failed to fulfill your legal obligations as Syndic!!

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    Panchito-9340
    Pimonaute
    Inscription : 24-01-2008
    Messages : 1

    Re : RULES ON RENOVATION NOISE IN A APARTMENT BUILDING

    There is NO money in syndic account and we can't pay

    Other co-owners may now take legal actions against you!!

    You have not properly managed the co-propriété.

    The Syndic knows only the owner, not the tenants.

    So it is always the owner (YOU) who has to pay the charges and consumptions of his tenants BEFORE to charge them back to the tenants.

    So in this case you are twice guilty: as Syndic but also as co-owner

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    Panchito-9340
    Pimonaute
    Inscription : 24-01-2008
    Messages : 1

    Re : RULES ON RENOVATION NOISE IN A APARTMENT BUILDING

    I am a first time landlord

    And I also presume you are a first time Syndic!!!

    Why to pretend to take such an important function, if you don't speak the local languages, have no idea about the Belgian laws on renting and probably knows nothing about being Syndic???

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    Panchito-9340
    Pimonaute
    Inscription : 24-01-2008
    Messages : 1

    Re : RULES ON RENOVATION NOISE IN A APARTMENT BUILDING

    A rule of thumb for good syndics is to always have the equivalent of 5 months of charge to be able to cope with all kind of unexpected situation.

    Like a landlord who is not able to pay the consumptions of his tenant because the tenant has not paid them.

    But in front of the other co-owners, the gulty one is the owner, not the tenants who are not present during the annual general assembly.

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    grmff
    Pimonaute non modérable
    Lieu : Sibulaga, Onatawani
    Inscription : 25-05-2004
    Messages : 16 369
    Site Web

    Re : RULES ON RENOVATION NOISE IN A APARTMENT BUILDING

    -(1)What are my rights now as a landlord? Since I received the letter on June 2nd, Can I assume that one month notice period of tenant starts on July 1st? Is it fair to expect that he pays rent for the month of July?

    If they sent the letter in may, and if the postman put the slip in your box in may, then the notice period is june.

    If you received the slip from the post man friday 1st of june, you have the right to impose that the notice périod  starts 1st july.

    That's law. But it would be pretty stupid to seek for trouble when you've been asking for months to have them out!!

    And even more when you fear they over consumme water and electricity!!!

    Open a bottle of champagne: they are out, they left by them selves. Means that you don't need to fear whatsoever 18 months indemnity and you can do what you want in their appartment when the leave.


    Grmf!
    ----------------
    N'envie pas les autres. Tu ne sais pas ce que l'avenir leur réserve...

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    grmff
    Pimonaute non modérable
    Lieu : Sibulaga, Onatawani
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    Messages : 16 369
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    Re : RULES ON RENOVATION NOISE IN A APARTMENT BUILDING

    -(2) If answer to above question is yes, do I need to respond to him accepting his request but pointing out notice period of one month starts from July 1st? Or simply don't respond as they would know by tracking I accepted it on June 2nd?
    -(3) Will it be an offense if I don't respond/reply but simply ask for July's rent when he quits?

    If you don't reply, and if they quit on 1st july, no judge will ever give you the right to the month of july.


    Grmf!
    ----------------
    N'envie pas les autres. Tu ne sais pas ce que l'avenir leur réserve...

    Hors ligne

    grmff
    Pimonaute non modérable
    Lieu : Sibulaga, Onatawani
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    Messages : 16 369
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    Re : RULES ON RENOVATION NOISE IN A APARTMENT BUILDING

    (4) What should I do if they don't pay rent ?
    (5) what should I do if they don't pay provisional charges?
    (6) How long should I wait before taking action?
    (7) There is NO money in syndic account and we can't pay. Will it become illegal if we, say shut down water or stop electricity to common area etc?
    (8) I am a first time landlord and new to all these stuff. In case of filing a "standard requette" with judge de paix, what is better?-Do it myself or do it through a lawyer?

    My best guess is that they will not pay the rent and charges of june.
    And that you will have to take it, volontarily or by justice, from the garantee.


    Grmf!
    ----------------
    N'envie pas les autres. Tu ne sais pas ce que l'avenir leur réserve...

    Hors ligne

    WSP
    Pimonaute assidu
    Lieu : Brussels
    Inscription : 14-09-2011
    Messages : 83

    Re : RULES ON RENOVATION NOISE IN A APARTMENT BUILDING

    Thanks all so far.. will sort out syndic account issue tomorrow. There are only two owners, only resident herefor now is  me & my  tenant smile

    So in no way, we do not offend any other tenant or co-owner at this pointor no legal actions foreseen.

    Only point, rental guarantee is 1600 euro but I still need to get provisional charges for May and June, Rent for June plus actual charges end of July around ~ 500 euro  (all these are totaling around 1600 euro already approx)

    Understoof that tenat will leave end of June and I can do nothing about it.

    Could you please guide me into the following aspects please?


    [color=#800000]tenant not paying provisional charges and pays rent delayed[/couleur]
    Tenant has a rental guarantee for two months blocked in a bank account.

    -He did not pay agreed provisional charge for the month of May, 32 days gone unpaid (which has been stated in the contract and date of payment is 1st of every month)
    -He paid rent for May 15 days late
    -There was no communication/warning till date on this regard, with respect to any delay in payment
    -Before receiving this termination note from tenant dated 29th May, I have already sent a registered letter dated 26th May, to both the tenants quoting that they didnot pay provisional charges for month of May,asked to pay by 30th May. Also warned that if this practice of delayed payment or not paying continues, I will file a "standard Requette" with Justice de paix.

    The provisional charges they pay are very less (they pay 85 euro but looks like we may need 150 euro per month) and end of fiscal accounting June 30th, they may need to pay another ~500 euro more towards actual charges based on consumtion(water, heating etc)

    [color=#000080]
    (4) What should I do if they don't pay rent  for June?
    (5) what should I do if they don't pay provisional charges (May, June)?
    (6) Knowing this will end in June and we will provide complete accounting for fiscal year end of July, after giving yearend accounting, How long should I wait before taking action?
    (7)  In case of filing a "standard requette" with judge de paix, what is better?-Do it myself or do it through a lawyer?
    (8) Whsat is best? Hold with going to judge de paix, give the final bill  for charges based on actual consumption, wait for x week to settle,:
    -(a) if not don't sign to unblock rental guarantee
    -(b)-go to judge de paix if bill is not settled three weeks from providing a ccounting
    [/couleur]


    WSP

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    grmff
    Pimonaute non modérable
    Lieu : Sibulaga, Onatawani
    Inscription : 25-05-2004
    Messages : 16 369
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    Re : RULES ON RENOVATION NOISE IN A APARTMENT BUILDING

    (4) What should I do if they don't pay rent for June?

    (5) what should I do if they don't pay provisional charges (May, June)?

    Send them a registered letter. Announce a legal action.

    (6) Knowing this will end in June and we will provide complete accounting for fiscal year end of July, after giving yearend accounting, How long should I wait before taking action?

    If I were you, I would take legal action once they left. Nothing before. By the time the judge call you, you will have the accounting ready. But I am not you, and I go to the judge myself.

    (7) In case of filing a "standard requette" with judge de paix, what is better?-Do it myself or do it through a lawyer?

    Depends on the time you have, and on your master of the french language. I consider that your case is simple, and that you don't need a lawyer. But you need time and possibility to understand the judge.

    (8) Whsat is best? Hold with going to judge de paix, give the final bill for charges based on actual consumption, wait for x week to settle,:
    -(a) if not don't sign to unblock rental guarantee
    -(b)-go to judge de paix if bill is not settled three weeks from providing a ccounting

    If you go by yourself:
    Don't sign to unblock the garantee. Ask them to pay the balance of charge for may and june, and the rent of june. Call them to justice with standard requete. Make your account and ask them to pay it.

    Then, you call them to settle out of court, and release the garantee in order to cover the balance. If they accept, the case is closed. You send a letter to the judge saying that the case is closed because it is "devenu sans objet"

    If you need a lawyer:
    Don't sign to unblock the garantee. Ask them to pay the balance of charge for may and june, and the rent of june. Make your account and ask them to pay it. Call them release the garantee in order to cover the balance. If they accept, the case is closed.

    If they do not accept, go and see your lawyer.


    Grmf!
    ----------------
    N'envie pas les autres. Tu ne sais pas ce que l'avenir leur réserve...

    Hors ligne

    WSP
    Pimonaute assidu
    Lieu : Brussels
    Inscription : 14-09-2011
    Messages : 83

    Re : RULES ON RENOVATION NOISE IN A APARTMENT BUILDING

    Wonderful folks !

    I see the light at the nd of the tunnel  tongue

    Thanks a bunch Grmff, Panchito, Panfrites  big_smile
    I would have been completely lost by now without you folks. Thanks a tonne for getting me ashore!

    Grmphh, I am Clueless. Will certainly follow your advice step-by-step and learn from it.

    Hopefully a few more questions


    FYI, Move for me really means moving from ground floor to first floor. Literally their is  NO change of address as our door no. has three postboxes, no box numbers either! Move from ground floor to first floor still onvolves logsitcis and cost, moving DSL, phone electricity etc dismantling furniture bla bla

    Now that they are vacating, I get the second garage myself, another 20 square meters and the back garden exclusively for me.(I won't ever make this mistake of renting garage, nothing for any tenant to access the back garden or garage to play or setup gym, do barbeque)

    By law, do I need to occupy the first floor they will vacate for us in July (else pay 18 months rent as penalty??]

    (10) Ok. I gave six months notice that I need their apartment for my family to move. Now they gave me one month notice that they will break the contract themselves and move sooner.  Does that mean it nullifies the requirement that I/my family  need to stay in their apartment for 2 more years?

    Will they file a lawsuit and claim 18 month rent if I don't move to first floor and instead rent back first floor out, from, say 1st July?



    Exit survey and key handover
    (11)  I am out of the country last week of June and first week of July.
    By family is still here. When does does key should collection happen? During, Before at or  after exit survey? OR, can my family collect the key on June 30th and I do exit survey in the weekend of first or second week of July?  Or tell teant I will collect key during exit survey myself on firts week of July?

    (12) If I propose they handover key and do exit survey on say, any day on the week of 18th to 23rd June, will they ask for refund of rent for last ~7 days pro-rated (if they pay)?  Will they end of paying rent for 3 weeks only if we agree for exit on 18~23rd June?

    (13) In case If I forced to move, can I have somebody there from July 1st who can be in first floor apartment temporarily from July 1st? (they will/amy eventually move done ground floor once I renovate Ground floor and move up in, say, September 1st
    ? (I have a probable future tenant who will visit me tomorrow, with whom I can rent out either the ground floor or first floor, based on what the  legal requirements are! )


    WSP

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    Panchito-9340
    Pimonaute
    Inscription : 24-01-2008
    Messages : 1

    Re : RULES ON RENOVATION NOISE IN A APARTMENT BUILDING

    By law, do I need to occupy the first floor they will vacate for us in July (else pay 18 months rent as penalty??]

    YES

    Ok. I gave six months notice that I need their apartment for my family to move. Now they gave me one month notice that they will break the contract themselves and move sooner. Does that mean it nullifies the requirement that I/my family need to stay in their apartment for 2 more years?

    NO

    Will they file a lawsuit and claim 18 month rent if I don't move to first floor and instead rent back first floor out, from, say 1st July?

    THEY WOULD BE ENTITLED

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    Panchito-9340
    Pimonaute
    Inscription : 24-01-2008
    Messages : 1

    Re : RULES ON RENOVATION NOISE IN A APARTMENT BUILDING

    Please find hereunder the best advices Relocation agent gives to expat tenants in Belgium (could apply even if in this case the situation is expat landlord - Belgian tenants...)

    MOVING OUT
    Respect the terms of the contract!
    If you want to break the lease before its expiration date, send your termination notice in due time best by registered letter with proof of delivery. The termination period starts on the first day of the month following the month in which your landlord received your notice.
    Once notified of your departure, your landlord is entitled to show the property to new candidates (generally 2 hours per day, 3 times a week). Propose the most convenient timeslots for every one (like 2 evenings a week between 6 and 8 pm and the Saturdays between 10 and 12 am). Present the property at its best: as soon a new tenant signs, you get rid of the visits and your landlord is more likely to grant you an earlier departure.
    Arrange with your landlord a date and time for the Exit Inspection. Please note that if this inspection is conducted by an Expert, acting for both parties, his decisions concerning the amount of compensation will be irrevocable. Generally, you have to give back all the keys (and the copies you would have made) at the end of this Inspection.
    CHECKLIST BEFORE THE EXIT INSPECTION
    •    The rented place should be given back in, at least, the same conditions you got it  (as described in the initial house inspection report).
    •    It needs to be perfectly clean and perfectly maintained.
    •    Clean out the smoke extractor in the kitchen and all the grease filters need to be perfectly clean.  Otherwise replace them before the exit house inspection.
    •    Calc: use a good anticalc for all taps in the kitchen and bathroom including opening the tip of the faucet and cleaning the filter under it.
    •    Check that WC flush mechanism is perfectly clean and doesn't keep on running.
    •    Joints: need to be perfectly maintained; replace them if they are damaged.
    •    Light fixtures; make sure all the light fixtures are firmly on the wall and that all bulbs work (unless they were dead when you moved in).
    •    Rain gutters must be perfectly clean.
    •    The garden must be in exactly the same conditions as before you moved in the rented property.
    •    Check for scratches on the parquet floors and doors; repair them if any or refinish the whole parquet floor if there are numerous spots and scratches.
    •    Vacuum and shampoo the carpets (it doesn’t matter if they were not shampooed when you entered. If the expert said they were clean and proper, you will need to clean them like that).
    •    Dirt smudges / condensation on the walls; you may be charged for painting the whole wall unless the painting is more than 9 years old, in which case it is fully amortized and you don’t have to repaint it. N.B you would still need to repair holes and clean the pencil writings of your children for instance.
    •    Check window and door handles and locks to make sure they work okay. Be sure each door has its own key. (Also valid for the letter box)
    •    Wash the curtains if they belong to the landlord and keep the receipt.
    •    Have the last maintenance bills for your boiler, heating system, water softener, alarm, chimney sweeping (even if you didn’t use the fireplace). Those maintenance reports can’t be older than 3 months.
    •    Make sure all appliances are perfectly clean and actually work if they belong to the landlord (dishwasher, dryer, washing machine, cooker, oven, microwave)
    •    Since following the Belgian laws you are responsible for any damages that would have occurred during your tenancy, you will need to prove you have informed your landlord in written (best through registered letters using the same language than the contract) as soon damages would have occurred for which you think your responsibility is not engaged (a leak in an inaccessible pipe, a leaking roof, …) If you don’t have those proofs, the expert will claim them from you.

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    grmff
    Pimonaute non modérable
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    Messages : 16 369
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    Re : RULES ON RENOVATION NOISE IN A APARTMENT BUILDING

    By law, do I need to occupy the first floor they will vacate for us in July (else pay 18 months rent as penalty??]

    (10) Ok. I gave six months notice that I need their apartment for my family to move. Now they gave me one month notice that they will break the contract themselves and move sooner. Does that mean it nullifies the requirement that I/my family need to stay in their apartment for 2 more years?

    Will they file a lawsuit and claim 18 month rent if I don't move to first floor and instead rent back first floor out, from, say 1st July?

    I would neot be as affirmative as Panchito.

    Jurisprudence is varying... and if my memory is correct, the court d'appel or even court de cassation said that you are not subject to any penalty if you don't respect the 2 years occupancy.

    To be checked.


    Grmf!
    ----------------
    N'envie pas les autres. Tu ne sais pas ce que l'avenir leur réserve...

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  • Appartement 735 000 € UCCLE
  • Villa 2 980 000 € WATERLOO
  • Maison 549 000 € UCCLE
  • Maison 4 600 000 € BRUXELLES
  • Villa 2 800 000 € UCCLE
  • Appartement 435 000 € ST-GILLES
  • Appartement 875 000 € FOREST
  • Villa Sous option BEERSEL
  • Appartement À partir de 365 000 € BRUXELLES
  • Maison 1 200 000 € UCCLE
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