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Exit survey and Key Handover, lease copy with fiscal authorties

WSP
Pimonaute assidu
Lieu : Brussels
Inscription : 15-09-2011
Messages : 83

Exit survey and Key Handover, lease copy with fiscal authorties

[situation]
-The contract type signed is (CONTRAT DE BAIL - RESIDENCE PRINCIPALE (Région de Bruxelles-Capitale)
link:https://www.pim.be/telechargement/bail_principal_v2009_bruxelles.pdf
-Gave a termination notice April 12th that they need to vacate in 6 months, on or before October 31st, as I need apartment for my own use now
-Tenant gave me a one month termination notice stating termination will be effective July1st 2012, Sunday
-WE , landlord and tenant did the entry survey ourselves, enclosed with
contract registered with fiscal authorities
-Tenant did not propose a date yet for the exit survey


I am out of the country last week of June and return back 1st week of July
(Flight tickets booked long back before I received tenants one month termination notice.No refund, No cancellation, either fly or loose flight fare)

[color=#004BE0]I am  explaining the situation and proposing them that we do the exit survey on 23rd June or 7th July although I may not be able to force him to handover key before 30th June

I also state to them that it is ideal that exit survey happens and they handover key immediately but I am not in town from 23rd June to 7th July sad[/couleur]


Question:

-(1) If contract termnates on July 1st, when are the tenants supposed to give me the keys back to me?

-(2) In case if tenant can't do exist survey before I leave, Can my family collect the key on 30th June on my behalf? What are the risks associated with it?
-(3) If tenant doesn't give teh keyand no exit survey happens before month-end, Can we still enter the apartment ourselves from July1st onwards?
-(4) In case if exit survey can't be done before July 7th or another date proposed by tenant, Can we start doing some renovation from July 1st, once the tenant left ?


From past experience, I know my tenants pretend to be very busy. I waited few months to meet but we couldn't so far to discuss some other issues.
My only possibilities to do exit survey are on June 23rd or JUly 7th.

-(5) What if tenant keeps post-poning the exit survey or doesn't accept dates proposed by me.? What are my rights to cut short this exit survey to not go beyond July 7th?
-(6) Along with etat de lieux, The contract has been registered with fiscal authorities. What is the procedure to cancel the registration with fiscal authorities? Do I need to notify them that the contract has been cancelled?


WSP

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grmff
Pimonaute non modérable
Lieu : Sibulaga, Onatawani
Inscription : 26-05-2004
Messages : 15 861
Site Web

Re : Exit survey and Key Handover, lease copy with fiscal authorties

-(1) If contract termnates on July 1st, when are the tenants supposed to give me the keys back to me?

They sould give you the keys on 30th at latest if it is ok for you. Or later if you are not there at that time.

-(2) In case if tenant can't do exist survey before I leave, Can my family collect the key on 30th June on my behalf? What are the risks associated with it?

They should not collect keys before exit check out (état des lieux de sortie)
If you take the keys before, the tenant will deny any resposibility in any damage, claiming that you took the keys and did it yourself.

-(3) If tenant doesn't give teh keyand no exit survey happens before month-end, Can we still enter the apartment ourselves from July1st onwards?

Don't enter before check out/survey.

-(4) In case if exit survey can't be done before July 7th or another date proposed by tenant, Can we start doing some renovation from July 1st, once the tenant left ?

You have the right to it. But then you loose the right to claim whatsoever...

From past experience, I know my tenants pretend to be very busy. I waited few months to meet but we couldn't so far to discuss some other issues. My only possibilities to do exit survey are on June 23rd or JUly 7th.  -(5) What if tenant keeps post-poning the exit survey or doesn't accept dates proposed by me.? What are my rights to cut short this exit survey to not go beyond July 7th?

If they delay the check out, you will have the right to ask for daily occupancy.
But if they go on holydays from 5th july till 30th july, and are ready to do the check out on 30th of june, it will be your fault, and not their problem.

-(6) Along with etat de lieux, The contract has been registered with fiscal authorities. What is the procedure to cancel the registration with fiscal authorities? Do I need to notify them that the contract has been cancelled?

No need to notify the end of contract to the administration


Grmf!
----------------
Si vous pensez avoir tout compris de l'immobilier,
c'est qu'on vous l'a mal expliqué.

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Panchito-9340
Pimonaute
Inscription : 24-01-2008
Messages : 1

Re : Exit survey and Key Handover, lease copy with fiscal authorties

If you have used the excellent PIM lease contract, there is clause requiring that the exit house inspection takes place AT LATEST the last day of the contract, which is in your case the 30th of June.

By the way, did they pay the rent for June?

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Panchito-9340
Pimonaute
Inscription : 24-01-2008
Messages : 1

Re : Exit survey and Key Handover, lease copy with fiscal authorties

Article 1: Objet - Description - Etat

Sauf accord des parties, l'état des lieux de sortie sera effectué le dernier jour de location, celui-ci devant coïncider avec la libération des lieux.

So if you want to perform this inspection sooner, you will need the written agreement of your tenants.

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WSP
Pimonaute assidu
Lieu : Brussels
Inscription : 15-09-2011
Messages : 83

Re : Exit survey and Key Handover, lease copy with fiscal authorties

Thanks a bunch for patiently answering my questions. Much appreciated.


By the way, did they pay the rent for June?

Yes, Surprisingly, They have paid the rent for June and pending charges of May plus June in time. Looks like the registered letter I have sent on26th of May, after 3 weeks of delay in payment,  seems to have worked. I just stated that I may consider approaching Judge de paix and file a standard requette if they don't pay in time.

One last question. I let them install a dish washer in the kitchen by dismantling part of the furnished kitchen, on a condition that, they will revert it back to the same state as it was before, when they handover.

We have photos attached to etat de lieux showing the sate of kitchen before they dismantled it.


We didn't invite a professional expert to save cost of expert for entry and exit now I am stuck ;(

The actual on etat de lieux condition is:

ll n'existe aucune disposition dans Ia cuisine pour installer un lave-vaisselle ou une machine à laver, mais le bailleur accepte que les locataires en installe un, du moment qu'ils remettent Ia cuisine dans Ie mème état qu'à leur arrivée

After they moved in, I know for sure they cut open the wooden kitchen table top to bring the electric plug/power-cord from the dishwasher.
My expectation was, they remove detachable pieces from bottom of the kitchen to slide in the dishwasher , save the pieces, restore it back when they leave.Didn't expect them there would be a need to make a hole in the kitchen top.They didn't specifically check with me to see if they can make a hole in the kitchen top.

[color=#0000E0]I believe this is an ikea kitchen , could be more than 10 years old, history not known as I bought this apartment last July.I can still dig to look into documents to see how old the kitchen is. Nowadays, new kitchens are more than 10,000 euro
[/couleur]

I am sure, they won't be able to restore it back the state it was before, as they cut the wood to make this hole, size more 2 euro, in square shape..

Although I believed them that bottom pieces are detachable, I don't know for sure if they cut some pieces underneath as well. If so, the structural strength of the kitchen is gone too.

[color=#0000E0]
For me, "restoring back to same state" implies solid wood and no structural damage-Not a synthetic filler on kitchen table top.

(a)What are my right and what (amount of money)can I claim back if they fail to restore the kitchen to same state as it was before?
(b) In case if I decide to install a new kitchen in the event that, if they couldn't restore it back to the state as it was before, what are their obligations? Would they be required to pay a part of a cost of installing a new kitchen? If yes, any specific percentage of cost of new kitchen?
(c) What is the legal recourse in case if we both don't agree on compensation for the kitchen damage?

They also seem to have made some damage on a common wall during the move but there is no proof, other than that nobody moved in or out since the time this damage was seen. This damage was only seen after their arrival, result of moving heavy machinery in the winding narrow stairs.

I wrote a letter twice if they were responsible for the damage in common wall , if so, repair it themselves-but they never responded to it. 
the wall is special with some mosaic plaster and doesn't need any painting. So, filling is one story and matching that mosaic plaster would be a challenge.

(d)What could I claim as damage towards filling a 1/2 teh size of golf ball gash in the common wall in basement?
[/couleur]


WSP

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grmff
Pimonaute non modérable
Lieu : Sibulaga, Onatawani
Inscription : 26-05-2004
Messages : 15 861
Site Web

Re : Exit survey and Key Handover, lease copy with fiscal authorties

If I was paid one manon per answer, I vwould be really fat...

(a)What are my right and what (amount of money)can I claim back if they fail to restore the kitchen to same state as it was before?

Frankly speaking, I have no idea. It depends ont the type of table top.

Would it be for me, I would check the price of a new table top from Ikea, complete for the whole kitchen, and count the price of installation.

(b) In case if I decide to install a new kitchen in the event that, if they couldn't restore it back to the state as it was before, what are their obligations? Would they be required to pay a part of a cost of installing a new kitchen? If yes, any specific percentage of cost of new kitchen?

They will never be able to restore it to the state it was before, but no judge will ever say that they have to pay the full kitchen. Especially if it is 10 years old.

(c) What is the legal recourse in case if we both don't agree on compensation for the kitchen damage?

As for everything in the renting business: Juge de Paix.

(d)What could I claim as damage towards filling a 1/2 teh size of golf ball gash in the common wall in basement?

No idea. That's why you sould pay an expert for the état des lieux de sortie...


Grmf!
----------------
Si vous pensez avoir tout compris de l'immobilier,
c'est qu'on vous l'a mal expliqué.

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WSP
Pimonaute assidu
Lieu : Brussels
Inscription : 15-09-2011
Messages : 83

Re : Exit survey and Key Handover, lease copy with fiscal authorties

Thanks Grmphh wink
I will try to go easy.

That's why you sould pay an expert for the état des lieux de sortie...

Will try this. If I demand an expert to do état des lieux de sortie now, I believe I need to take the full cost.I assume this to be around 200 euros.

At the time of signing, we declared that we will do the  "état des lieux" ourselves by striking off "par expert" and selected "entre les parties" on the contract, page 1 "object/description/etat", contract we have signed.

Do I have the right to demand for an expert now, as we dion't have an expert for entry survey and we did it ourselves?


WSP

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grmff
Pimonaute non modérable
Lieu : Sibulaga, Onatawani
Inscription : 26-05-2004
Messages : 15 861
Site Web

Re : Exit survey and Key Handover, lease copy with fiscal authorties

As said on another topic on this site recently, I believe that anyone has a right to have an counsellor.

If the contract mention "no expert", you will have to do the check out yourself, with the advise of the expert.

To my opinion, it would not be fair to come with an expert without warning that you will come with an expert.


Grmf!
----------------
Si vous pensez avoir tout compris de l'immobilier,
c'est qu'on vous l'a mal expliqué.

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