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Imposing interest for delayed rent - (PIM contract template 2014v4)

IBS
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Imposing interest for delayed rent - (PIM contract template 2014v4)

I have tenant(s) who has signed for a 9 year contract, for an apartment in brussels capital region. We started as a short term contract in 2012, and eventually it got extended couple of times, third time signed up new as nine year contract,  last signed contract effective start date first day of move in 2012.  One of tenants left but the contract is still on both the partners. The last contract signed was based on template from bail de résidence principale pour un immeuble sis dans la Région de Bruxelles-Capitale (2014v4)] PIM 2014v4

The person who is left is employed in a bank. The single woman who's staying behaving doesn't have full employment ever so far.

In all these six years, rent was never paid on time, always split and paid in multiple instalments, mostly from 'paternal grandmother' of the child. Delay is typically 2 to 3 weeks but some times more than a month, once, delayed rent was paid one year later.

She sent me the following WhatsApp message last month and I wrote back her that she should quit our apartment and look for something cheaper and affordable.

"Bonjour monsieur X, Madam Y,
Je vous demande de m'excuser pour les retards du loyer chaque mois. J'ai des problèmes avec mon travail à la commune ils ne me paye pas bien et en retard. Je suis à la recherche d'un autre travail. Donc je vous demande de la patience pour votre loyer. Si le problème continue, monsieur Ramesh peut m'envoyer une lettre recommandée pour rompre le bail et je peux déménager en juillet. C'est vrai que je ne sais pas plus payer un loyer de 815 tout les mois. Merci pour votre compréhension. Madam Z"


She doesn't want to quit as she knows she may not be able to get another apartment.She is looking forward to get some social housing and but waitlisted for the last 5 years.She asks me I should send her 'resiliation de bail' and also expects to me to write to her that she is a bad payer, so that she can use that letter to get
social housing soon.

We don't intend to send 'resolution de bail', don't have major renovation, don't want to pay her 18 months rent for breaking the contract myself, we don't need that apartment for our own use.

As this cannot go on forever, we started sending registered letter to both parties, expensing on my own, for rent-follow-up, maintenance follow-up etc. Per contract specific conditions, she should provide me proof of maintenance(entretien complete) plus proof of tenant liability insurance every year.(She has not given such proof  in the last 3 years).We don't even know know if her tenant liability insurance is still active.

We never charged her interest so far for rental delays.  To increase the pressure that she leaves on her own, we would like impose interest for any delays in rent.

November rent of 815€, which should paid on Nov 5th, was paid as follows:

-415€ from Madam X on 16/11
-200€ from Madam X on 29/11
-200 € from Madam X, on 12/12

December rent of 815€, which should paid on December 5th, was paid as follows:

-415 € from Madam 'Mamie' on 17/12
-400€ from Madam X on 18/12


We don't know how to calculate rent on a daily basis. To make it simple, we intend to charge her on a monthly basis, charging for the whole month, for delays less than one month :
€16.46 for the delay in rent for November
€8.19 for the delay in rent for December

If I send registered letter to both the parties of the interest due,  acquired interest will be barely sufficient to pay the postal cost sad

Interest calculation:

Month    Month Interest    Total Interest    Balance
1    €8.19        €8.19        €823.19
2    €8.27        €16.46        €831.46




  1. charging €8.19 for less tan a month delay, 16.46€ for delay up to 2 months, is that legal for PIMS contract 2014v4?

  2. How can we cheaply but legally notify her of any interest due?

  3. How often do we need to notify her, after every delay, within 90 days?

  4. postal charges for rental followup not included in specific conditions of PIMs 2014 v4 contract. Can I still charge her postal cost of any follow-up (or should I need to pay it myself)?

Dernière modification par IBS (19-12-2018 23:12:38)

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grmff
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Re : Imposing interest for delayed rent - (PIM contract template 2014v4)

The contract mention 1% per month, any month counted full.

So, each rent with a delay is counted full month. 815€ x 1% = 8.15€ per month. If november was paid in ful in december, you may ask for 2% (november+december)

Personnally, I never counted the interests. In your case, it can be a good idea to get them out...


Grmf!
----------------
Il y a le ciel, le soleil et la mer...
Il y a aussi l'équipe pour gérer et les briques pour payer le tout.
Grmf! big_smile

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panchito
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Re : Imposing interest for delayed rent - (PIM contract template 2014v4)

Since all my rents are higher than 800€, I always bill interest if the rent is not paid in full before the 10th of the month (all my contracts require the rent being paid on the 1st by standing order).

If the interest is not paid before the end of the same month, I also bill the compound interest:
“Compound interest is the eighth wonder of the world. He who understands it, earns it ... he who doesn't ... pays it.” Albert Einstein

How to calculate compound interest in Excel

And anyway I am not "interested" to keep tenants who don't pay on date and time, so if they break their contract beacuse of that, well, I am very happy!

Dernière modification par panchito (20-12-2018 12:37:28)

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panchito
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Re : Imposing interest for delayed rent - (PIM contract template 2014v4)

1/ How can we cheaply but legally notify her of any interest due?

2/ How often do we need to notify her, after every delay, within 90 days?

3/ postal charges for rental followup not included in specific conditions of PIMs 2014 v4 contract. Can I still charge her postal cost of any follow-up (or should I need to pay it myself)?

1/ Anyhow but written (facebook, messenger, email, sms, etc...)
2/ Why to use the old fashionned postal services? It is a fully outdated communication channel...
3/ No postal charges

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grmff
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Re : Imposing interest for delayed rent - (PIM contract template 2014v4)

As for me, I always send reminder by sms (or whatsapp or mail, but rarely). Next step is "Justice de Paix". No letters. No registered letters. No postal charges.


Grmf!
----------------
Il y a le ciel, le soleil et la mer...
Il y a aussi l'équipe pour gérer et les briques pour payer le tout.
Grmf! big_smile

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IBS
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Re : Imposing interest for delayed rent - (PIM contract template 2014v4)

Folks,  On requesting for interest(24,53 €) for delay in rent for  month of November & December , this is the message I get:


Je ne peux pas! Envoyez moi devant le juge. Bonne journée et joyeux. Plus de watts app. Merci
Monsieur X fera l'entretien de la chaudière en janvier. Et mon assurance est payer donc arrêter vos harcèlement. Sinon je porte plainte auprès des syndicats des locataires.
Et s'il vous plait laisser moi dormir tranquille.

Should I  be scared? I  am just going by the law and signed contract yikes

Indeed, we never charged interest for delays till this day but is getting unbearable. She also claims , In Belgium, it is normal to pay rent by middle of the month, despite signing to pay 5th of every month.

The offences from tenants so far are:

  1. not paying rent in full, on time, in the last six years

  2. not providing proof of insurance and maintenance of gas boilers every year, although she agreed and signed up for this clause  in specific conditions on PIMS contract 2014v4

  3. other employed partner who signed this contract together but left the place, is in the loop for all communication but he is not doing anything

  4. one of the tenants responding arrogantly,  both complaining that we are exaggerating

I think I should still keep sending interests for any delayed rents henceforth. I really can't decide how and when should I go to the Juge de paix.

Any other suggestions?

Dernière modification par IBS (21-12-2018 16:23:32)

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GT
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Re : Imposing interest for delayed rent - (PIM contract template 2014v4)

Reste à voir ce que décidera le juge alors que les taux d'intérêt sur un compte d'épargne sont loin, très, très loin d'atteindre 12 %,  chiffre repris dans le contrat de bail.

Par ailleurs, actuellement, le taux d'intérêt légal en matière civile est de 2 %

https://www.droitsquotidiens.be/fr/ques … -de-retard

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IBS
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Re : Imposing interest for delayed rent - (PIM contract template 2014v4)

Thank you. I know where I stand now.  Will be very careful with long term renting. Learning day by day. Some lessons are way too expensive sad

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panchito
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Re : Imposing interest for delayed rent - (PIM contract template 2014v4)

If your contract says 1% per month, and she has agreed (by signing it) than it is 1% per month!


If she doesn't want now to fulfill her contractual obligations, however she has agreed with them by signing the contract, she needs to go to court and mabe the Judge will reduce the interest rate.

You are afraid?  Why?

If she really hires a lawyer (at min 150€/hour without VAT), to be able to introduce a request in the Court, let her do!

You have plenty of proofs she has never fullfilled all her legal and contractual obligations.

She clearly plays with your feets.

The problem is that you have probably nothing done since 6 years.

As soon a single legal or contractual obligation was not perlectly filled than you should have reacted. ASAP.

Dernière modification par panchito (21-12-2018 21:38:42)

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panchito
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Re : Imposing interest for delayed rent - (PIM contract template 2014v4)

I think I should still keep sending interests for any delayed rents henceforth.

Yes, of course, you should! She will get  her 13th month (or she has already received it!!)

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IBS
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Re : Imposing interest for delayed rent - (PIM contract template 2014v4)

But she has no intention of paying.  She simply throws any letter we send back to us, even the registered letters. She simply doesn't care. What she said when we asked for interest is Je ne peux pas! Envoyez moi devant le juge.

Dernière modification par IBS (22-12-2018 01:19:37)

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IBS
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Re : Imposing interest for delayed rent - (PIM contract template 2014v4)

We will certainly not give up.  I am sure there will be a third delay in January rent, as this is always the case.  If necessary, We will spend a bit more for two more registered letters, send a reminder for pending interest for rental delays for the last three consecutive months. Collect all the proof ( our letters which has been torn  & thrown away back to us) and wait one month after sending request for interest, may consider going to Juge de paix  once three months interests were not paid.

She has written the following in the same registered letter we sent and dropped it back to our door:


Arretez de me prendre la tête avec vos bla bla! Mon assurance est payer et pour la chaudière voyez cela avec Mr. X c'est vous qui m'avez conseiller ce monsieur il m'a dit en janvier il viendra pour l'entretien. Je pesnse que vous exagérer. S'il vous plait laissez moi dormir en paix!

Joyeux Noël,
Madame X

It is up to the judge to reduce the interest (or not) but hope we will find a solution for this struggle.

Apart from not paying the rent in time, she has not fulfilled any of the following 'clauses particuliares' in our signed contract since many years
Screenshot_2018-12-22_at_00.40.48.png

Dernière modification par IBS (22-12-2018 00:43:30)

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panchito
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Re : Imposing interest for delayed rent - (PIM contract template 2014v4)

You have to educate her!

Your tenant a écrit :

Arrêter de me prendre la tête avec votre blabla

I would answer to your very impolite tenant: I will immediately stop to disturb you as soon the rent and the interest are paid!

Do you believe Proximus or Electrabel let you in peace if you don't pay their bills???

I never disturb tenants who are fulfilling their legal and contractual obligations. NEVER.

At the opposite I never stop to send emails and SMS as soon the rent is not paid on date and time:
- 3 days delay: I send a SMS
- 10 days delay: I send an official letter in Word (that includes my request for interest payment) as attachment of an email
- 32 days delay: I introduce a case in Court

I suppose she has never a delay of 32 days (which represents 2 months not being paid...) but that she pays always too late.

In this case, I also send every 2 weeks a letter in Word format as attachment of an email with the title: "current statement balance of your debt".

The word document contains an Excel, with the rent of the month (not yet paid), the interests for this month, and the compound interests for the past months in case those interest would not have been paid yet.

I start with the first delay.

It is very efficient. But you need to introduce this at the very first delay...

Dernière modification par panchito (22-12-2018 10:39:04)

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GT
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Re : Imposing interest for delayed rent - (PIM contract template 2014v4)

panchito a écrit :

If your contract says 1% per month, and she has agreed (by signing it) than it is 1% per month!

Article 1153, al.5, C. civil
"Sous réserve de l'application de l'article 1907, le juge peut, d'office ou à la demande du débiteur, réduire l'intérêt stipulé à titre de dommages-intérêts pour retard dans l'exécution si cet intérêt excède manifestement le dommage subi à la suite de ce retard. En cas de révision, le juge ne peut condamner le débiteur à payer un intérêt inférieur à l'intérêt légal. Toute clause contraire aux dispositions du présent alinéa est réputée non écrite"

Le taux de 12% est excessif par rapport au dommage subi par le bailleur suite aux retards de paiement ? Le juge tranchera. D'office ou à la demande du locataire.

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grmff
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Re : Imposing interest for delayed rent - (PIM contract template 2014v4)

She can not pay the rent and ask you a leave letter. Then ask you to stop reminders or to send her to the jugde.

Abide by her rules and wish: put the case in front of the judge and get an end of contract decided by the judge.

Conciliation procedure is made for this kind of case.


Grmf!
----------------
Il y a le ciel, le soleil et la mer...
Il y a aussi l'équipe pour gérer et les briques pour payer le tout.
Grmf! big_smile

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panchito
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Re : Imposing interest for delayed rent - (PIM contract template 2014v4)

GT a écrit :

Le juge tranchera. D'office ou à la demande du locataire.

Yes but if she wants a reduction of the interest rate, she needs to introduce a Court case.....

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GT
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Re : Imposing interest for delayed rent - (PIM contract template 2014v4)

panchito a écrit :
GT a écrit :

Le juge tranchera. D'office ou à la demande du locataire.

Yes but if she wants a reduction of the interest rate, she needs to introduce a Court case.....

Si le preneur refuse de payer les intérêts réclamés  par le bailleur, ce dernier choisira d'intenter ou non une action devant le juge.

Dernière modification par GT (22-12-2018 11:11:13)

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