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#1 Re : Locations et baux » Problème avec le locataire » 04-04-2014 09:46:33

van
panchito a écrit :

And the expert is not yet paid by both of you for the entry?

how many years did the tenant stayed?

I don't know any serious expert who will wait the exit to be paid for the entry!!

He left the house in the 2nd year of stay in 3 ys contract and paid me the contract breakage of 2 months rent.
I paid the total amount of the expert in the hope that my tenant would pay 50% (250)of it to me .

#2 Re : Locations et baux » Problème avec le locataire » 04-04-2014 09:46:33

van
panchito a écrit :

So, if he signs the final report written by the expert where is the problem?

I suppose that the expert has calculated all the costs to repair the damages. And if your tenant has signed it well he has to pay or you can deduce the amount from the deposit.

well, what he says is
1.he didn't have any reference to put the place back like it was before.
2The expert charged 500(for entry and exit together) euros , 50 % of which(200) which the tenant has to pay. The tenant wouldn't pay as he was not present during entry.

#3 Re : Locations et baux » Problème avec le locataire » 04-04-2014 09:46:33

van
grmff a écrit :

Did the tenant sign anything from the expert? Like a contract or mandat?

He signed on"proces-verbal d'etat des lieux locatif, de sortie et d'estimation, de l'indemnite compensatoire, a l'usage exclusif des membres UGEB-ULEB".

#4 Re : Locations et baux » Problème avec le locataire » 04-04-2014 09:46:33

van
panchito a écrit :

So, since there were no expert and the tenants didn't sign the report you have written yourselve, well it has absolutely no value; registered or not.

no. There was an expert both during entry and exit but the tenant was not present during entry. the tenant was present during the exit though. and signed the exit "stat de lieu" but not the entry "etat des lieux."

#5 Re : Locations et baux » Problème avec le locataire » 04-04-2014 09:46:33

van
Francis a écrit :

@ Pim, l'enregistrement d'un état des lieux lui donne date certaine mais pas plus sauf à prouver que le locataire a reçu un exemplaire enregistré et complet de cet ELE et qu'il n'a pas réagit .

Sry i did not understand…can somebody say this in english

#6 Re : Locations et baux » Problème avec le locataire » 04-04-2014 09:46:33

van
panchito a écrit :

Citation :It was taken but not in the presence of the tenant

That is not a problem at all.

The report just need to be signed by the expert. The best it to let it also sign by the landlord and the tenant.

Is it the case?

I had done the "etat des lieu" during the entry WITHOUT the presence of my tenant, and I don't have the tenants sign on the entry "etat des lieux" . Now when she vacated the apartment we did it together and she signed on the exit "etat des lieu". But now she refuses to pay my 1100 euros.

#7 Re : Locations et baux » Problème avec le locataire » 04-04-2014 09:46:33

van
PIM a écrit :

N'ai pas suivi tout le fil.
Je (me) pose la question suivante: le bail ET l'état des lieux ont-ils été enregistrés ?...

Yes the lease was recorded. About the inventory- It was taken but not in the presence of the tenant.

#8 Re : Locations et baux » Problème avec le locataire » 04-04-2014 09:46:33

van
Francis a écrit :

Je suis pas certain, Grmff, que ce soit valable dans tous les cas.

J'ai rencontré un cas similaire et le juge a considérer que le constat de dégâts locatifs n'avait pas de base suffisante pour entrainer une indemnité compensatoire.
En bref, tout dépend du problème, du Juge de Paix et de l'argumentation des parties !

Il arrive que des états des lieux réalisés sans avoir le caractère contradictoire soit considérés par les juges comme illégaux et donc rejetés, comme une clause de bail reprenant la description détaillée des lieux loués (remplaçant l'ELE) est réputée non écrite.  Reste à avoir d'autres preuves, mais c'est peu évident, du moins pour certains type de dégâts.

Thank you...

#9 Re : Locations et baux » Problème avec le locataire » 04-04-2014 09:46:33

van
grmff a écrit :

If you sent him a mail, and if he replied to you, there is no need for whatever other communication.

Thank you sooooo much …Totally loved this site. Helped a lot…. Thank you once again.

#10 Re : Locations et baux » Problème avec le locataire » 04-04-2014 09:46:33

van
grmff a écrit :

Citation :I have send numerous e-mails . Are e-mails considered as formal letters?
What do you mean "formal letter"? What is the use? You can proceed in justice even without "formal letter"!

SMS, mail and other letter can be showed in justice. I already did, and succeeded with sms.

I meant do i have to send a registered letter? I don't have his present home address but I know where he works.

#11 Re : Locations et baux » Problème avec le locataire » 04-04-2014 09:46:33

van
Himura a écrit :

Yes, if you win, your lawyer costs can be put in additional charges fort the condamned party.
(In Liège, a lawyer requests approx. 220 € for this kind of procedure, but in Bruxelles... it's much more).

If he pays before you're both in front of the judge, the procedure is over, as the subject is not relevant anymore.
In that case, all fees will be at your charges.

Maybe you can also be represented by someone you trust, that would agree to follow this procedure for you (a very good friend...)

In the meantime, you can push and write formal letter to the other party...

I have send numerous e-mails . Are e-mails considered as formal letters?

#12 Re : Locations et baux » Problème avec le locataire » 04-04-2014 09:46:33

van
grmff a écrit :

The procedure?

2 possibilities: conciliation or requête en justice de paix.

Conciliation is free. You just write to the judge and ask him to organize the conciliation meeting. Your ex-tenant will be invited with a very formal letter from the tribunal.

Conciliation has no formal way to inforce wathever. If the tenant doesn't comme, nothing happens. If he comes but don't agree, nothing happens. Sometimes, it works. It depends upon the quality of the judge, and the will to reach an agreement.


Requete en justice de paix: cost 40€. You also have to join a "certificat de domicile" (you can get this document at the town hall - service population) Cost: between 0 and 10€

If you don't speak french, there is no possibility: you have to hire a lawyer.

can the cost at the justice de paix and the lawyer be reimbursed if I win?
And what if he decides to pay me the amount after I file a complaint at justice the paix but before the hearing?

#13 Re : Locations et baux » Problème avec le locataire » 04-04-2014 09:46:33

van
grmff a écrit :

I see why I had this impression: it was the reality... tongue

I don't agree with Francis.

With the documents you have, I believe a judge will give you the right to get your money.

Don't forget that the "état des lieux" is not the only way to prove the situation at the begining.

I know owners who went to see the previous tenant, to get pictures of the children in the garden, to prove the state of the garden at the end of contract with previous tenant... and in the begining of the contract with the tenant who did not agree with the owner.

A judge gave me right to my "dégats locatifs"... when there was no "état des lieux d'entrée" at all !!!

A judge gave me right to my "dégats locatifs"... when the leaving tenant was not there and did not sign the "état des lieux de sorties". I simply asked somebody else to sign as witness. And the witness was not there at the "audience de justice de paix". Just his signature.

In your case, you have a signature of the tenant. A written proof that he agrees to pay, if your document is correctly made...

Go on. You will win.

Don't forget the price of your free consultation on pim.be...

sorry for the confusion at the beginning..;p

What would be the procedure for the legal proceedings? justice the peace?
What are the fees involved?

#14 Re : Locations et baux » Problème avec le locataire » 04-04-2014 09:46:33

van
ChristopheDelagrange a écrit :

van a écrit :
I had done the "etat des lieu" during the entry WITHOUT the presence of my tenant . Now when she vacated the apartment we did it together and she signed on the exit "etat des lieu". But now she refuses to pay my 1100 euros. What should I do? Will it be possible for me to win the claim if I go legally?

I think that the document signed on exit would be sufficient.
Did you write the amounts due to the owner on the paper, or is it just a state of the damages ?
You would probably win, but you'd better have a signed document by parties, with the exact amounts. Otherwise there may be some discussions

I do have a signed document with the total amount to be paid . But again the places that we signed got swapped accidentally. My tenant signed where I should have and I signed where my tenant should have.

#15 Re : Locations et baux » Problème avec le locataire » 04-04-2014 09:46:33

van
grmff a écrit :

Pourquoi j'ai l'impression de lire un mode d'emploi de machine à lessiver traduit automatiquement?

Franchement, j'ai rien compris...

Sorry, I don't speak french. I used google translator to translate my question.Hope somebody speaks English here.

I had done the "etat des lieu" during the entry WITHOUT the presence of my tenant . Now when she vacated the apartment we did it together and she signed on the exit "etat des lieu". But now she refuses to pay my 1100 euros. What should I do? Will it be possible for me to win the claim if I go legally?

Please help

#16 Locations et baux » Problème avec le locataire » 04-04-2014 09:46:33

van
Réponses : 38

Bonjour,
J'avais fait la etat des lieu lors de la saisie sans la présence de mon locataire et je n'ai pas sa signature sur elle. Maintenant, quand elle est vacances que nous avons fait ensemble et elle a signé sur la sortie etat des lieu. Mais maintenant, elle refuse de payer. Est-il possible pour moi de remporter la demande si je vais légalement? En signant la sortie d'un, cela signifie que le locataire a implicitement accepté ses conclusions et donc implicitement accepté la première EDL.

S'il vous plaît aider

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