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    Is it illegal ask for proof of existing of exiting our apartment?

    rshanmug
    Pimonaute
    Inscription : 13-03-2016
    Messages : 27

    Is it illegal ask for proof of existing of exiting our apartment?

    Hello,

    Three non-EU students with visa for a year have stayed with us for 10 months and exited our apartment by last month.
    We used the PIM contract for a 10 month short-term bail to stay in  our apartment.

    They are about to meet me for to release the bank guarentee. I request them to meet me with the following details:
    They owe us about 60 euros of charges and we need to decide on repair of items broken by them


    (1) necessary papers from the bank to release rental guarentee
    (2) Proof from the woluwe-saint-pierre commune , for each off you, proving our residence is not primary address anymore and you ALL have exited our apartment.

    Meeting can only happen if the majority of tenants, at least two out of three people, are present.  If somebody cannot come, please arrange to send a signed power of attorney form, authorizing one of your friends to be present for the meeting.If this power of attorney is not received or if there are two tenants attending  to the meeting, decision taken by the majority of tenants and landlords would be final.

    One of the NON-EU tenants has exited already and living in another European country for internship. I suspect none of them de-registered from the commune and they are still using our address as primary address.

    (1) Is it illegal ask for proof of existing of exiting our apartment?  Or should I check it myself at the commune?
    (2) Is it ok to make a decision with only two tenants while the third tenant is out of the country and declined my meeting request?



    Thanks in advance

    Hors ligne

    panchito
    Pimonaute non modérable
    Inscription : 19-06-2012
    Messages : 6 562

    Re : Is it illegal ask for proof of existing of exiting our apartment?

    1) Is it illegal ask for proof of existing of exiting our apartment?  Or should I check it myself at the commune?

    The Commune (WSP) will not answer your question since they consider you are violating the privacy law. The principle of Worldwide Main Residence as known in Belgium is unknown in a lot of other countries. Therefore people don't bother to de-register when they leave our country.

    But are you sure they got a residence permit? It is very difficult for non EU-citizen to get one in Belgium. They need to prove their revenue and lots of other things. Normally the police makes also an inquiry and this process can take months before they can get a residence permit (allowing to be registered at the commune).

    I even wonder that a Belgian bank was able to open a bank account under their name tu put their warranty. It thought it is impossible for non eu-students (without any revenue) to open a bank account in Belgium.

    Do they have signed the final house inspection with the amount corresponding to the damages?

    Hors ligne

    rshanmug
    Pimonaute
    Inscription : 13-03-2016
    Messages : 27

    Re : Is it illegal ask for proof of existing of exiting our apartment?

    Yes,  through the university where they have studied, they got resident permit for the duration of the course, with our address as primary address, based on rental contract. I understand commune will not respond to my question due to privacy laws so won't bother attempting to check it.

    I will ask them to settle pending arrears, for the charges and for the damages.
    Once it is done, will sign to have the bank guarantee released.


    Thanks for the help.

    Hors ligne

    libra
    Pimonaute intarissable
    Inscription : 05-02-2011
    Messages : 1 297

    Re : Is it illegal ask for proof of existing of exiting our apartment?

    It should not be bad if you ask the commune or the district police officer to remove your tenant's primary address.

    But what do you mean when you write 'our residence is not primary address'? Do you have the same primary address?

    Dernière modification par libra (17-08-2017 15:47:48)

    En ligne

    panchito
    Pimonaute non modérable
    Inscription : 19-06-2012
    Messages : 6 562

    Re : Is it illegal ask for proof of existing of exiting our apartment?

    The problem is that if your ex-tenants didn't de-register from the commune, if they would have any debt, the bailifts are allowed to penetrate in your apartment (their Worldwide Main Address) to take away all the furniture, appliances etc... for which you can't prove (via bills) that your are the owner!!

    Hors ligne

    panchito
    Pimonaute non modérable
    Inscription : 19-06-2012
    Messages : 6 562

    Re : Is it illegal ask for proof of existing of exiting our apartment?

    And why on earth did you sign main residence contract with Students to rent out rooms in your own apartment? They will be considered as part of your family with all the consequence that cab have on social security and taxes!

    Therefore you have AirB&B or "kots" rentals.

    Hors ligne

    stdibari
    Pimonaute assidu
    Inscription : 01-08-2017
    Messages : 72
    Site Web

    Re : Is it illegal ask for proof of existing of exiting our apartment?

    Hello,

    I see 2 concerns:
    1: getting the the money they own you back ( 60 euro+ damage)
    > Just ask them to come for the bank. I would call the bank in advance to ask them the procedure if indeed you want to keep some of their warranty money. The best is to establish before hand a report of the damage and the charge amount. Send it to them for signature.  If you all agree it wil be very easy.
    If you do not agree> negociate, the judicial way for this is complex, lenghty and not worthwile.  Just keep in mind it is their money and until you sign torelease it it is blocked , this is a powerfull leverage in negociation :-)


    2: They registered in your appartment.
    > the easy way, speak with the local policie agent ( the one dealing with your neighbourhood ).  I got the same issue in the past. I called, prooved I am the owner of the house and told them of my doubts about some ppeople using my address illegally.
    I never asked for the names of people registered ( i did get them).  I listed them the people officially registered, asked them if my  list matched theirs, it did not they mentioned the names they had just for me to confirm they had been tenant at some time or not. (some name never actually lived at my place!!)
    The second way, go to the commune administration with the contract cancellation proofs and tell them the same thing. Just present it that you bring them data so they can confirm to you there is no illegal situation ( again do not ask who ).  focus on what they can tell you : if everything is ok, nto on what they cannt tell you : who is registered there. (even though they might tell you as you proove ownership)

    Hors ligne

    grmff
    Pimonaute non modérable
    Lieu : Sibulaga, Onatawani
    Inscription : 25-05-2004
    Messages : 16 374
    Site Web

    Re : Is it illegal ask for proof of existing of exiting our apartment?

    Who signed the warranty at the bank?
    All 3 of them?
    Then, yoj will never manage to release the warranty...


    Grmf!
    ----------------
    N'envie pas les autres. Tu ne sais pas ce que l'avenir leur réserve...

    En ligne

    panchito
    Pimonaute non modérable
    Inscription : 19-06-2012
    Messages : 6 562

    Re : Is it illegal ask for proof of existing of exiting our apartment?

    There were so many problems with banks when releasing deposits that now they require the physical presence of all the people who have signed to block the deposit. If one is missing, the bank will never accept to release the deposit. People are not obliged to go to the same agency, everybody can go to the nearest agency of  his new home in Belgium, but bank employees require to see the person signing the release. So physical presence is mandatory in one agency of the bank!

    Hors ligne

    grmff
    Pimonaute non modérable
    Lieu : Sibulaga, Onatawani
    Inscription : 25-05-2004
    Messages : 16 374
    Site Web

    Re : Is it illegal ask for proof of existing of exiting our apartment?

    panchito a écrit :

    There were so many problems with banks when releasing deposits that now they require the physical presence of all the people who have signed to block the deposit. If one is missing, the bank will never accept to release the deposit. People are not obliged to go to the same agency, everybody can go to the nearest agency of  his new home in Belgium, but bank employees require to see the person signing the release. So physical presence is mandatory in one agency of the bank!

    Absolutely.

    Therefore, if all tenants signed at the bank for the warranty, you will have to go to justice to release the money.


    Grmf!
    ----------------
    N'envie pas les autres. Tu ne sais pas ce que l'avenir leur réserve...

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